Gabe Newell's AI insights point to future of 'citizen developers'.

Origin Reddit Post

r/technology

Gabe Newell thinks AI tools will result in a 'funny situation' where people who don't know how to program become 'more effective developers of value' than those who've been at it for a decade

Posted by u/lurker_bee•07/19/2025

Top Comments

u/moofunk

> Try asking ChatGPT to number 10 vegetables in reverse order. It will number them 10-20. Now try to explain that it didn’t number them correctly. It will never figure out what “number in

u/mspurr

*You were the chosen one*! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness

u/immersive-matthew

Gabe raises a really good point. To date the only people who could make games were those with deep pockets who could hire a team, or those who could code. Those with the skills needed to m

u/scfoothills

I've had chatgpt write unit tests. It gets the concept of how to structure the code, but can't do simple shit like count. I did one not long ago where I had a function that needed to count th

u/PatchyWhiskers

Maybe AI can finish that for him…

u/SplendidPunkinButter

It’s not though. A dev with no context on what’s to be done _will go and find out what needs to be done._ That’s literally what the job is and what you get paid for. ChatGPT doesn’t care tha

u/stickyfantastic

One thing I'm curious about is how correctly done BDD/TDD works with shotgunning generated code. Like, you define the specific test cases well enough, start rapidly reprompting for code wi

u/OfCrMcNsTy

How can you fix the shitty code that llms generate for you if you don’t know how to program and read the code? Just keep asking the llm to keep regenerating the shitty piece of code again and

u/RedditIsFiction

People with no programming background won't be able to say what unit tests should be written let alone write meaningful ones.

u/3rddog

Just retired from 30+ years as a software developer, and while I do think AI is here to stay in one form or another, if I had $1 for every time I’ve heard “this will replace programmers” I’d

u/a-voice-in-your-head

Until AI can generate full apps and regenerate them from scratch in their entirety for new features without aid, this is pure insanity. AI can generate code, but it generates equal if not mo

u/LoserBroadside

He’s been too busy working on Half-life 3!

u/Smugg-Fruit

It's a "scenic" route

u/AssPennies

Oh no, Gaben drank the flavor aid :( Job security for developers who have to come in at top $$$ to clean that shit up when prod goes down, I guess.

u/BringerOfGifts

Good old abstraction at it again. But really, this is just the natural state of processing information. Abstractions are necessary for us to handle more complex tasks. Your own brain even do

u/LoserBroadside

He’s been too busy working on Half-life 3!

u/3rddog

>The domain experts are massively empowered to simply create and tinker with their own tooling. I’ve heard it said, but never yet seen it done. Will AI be any different? 🤷‍♂️

u/BeowulfShaeffer

GabeN has never been that kind of CEO though.

u/TICKLE_PANTS

I've spent a lot of time around developers who have no idea what the problem actually is. Code distorts your mind from the end product. I don't doubt that those that are customer facing and a

u/NeuroInvertebrate

As an example, I was asked by my organization to develop some training materials for our infosec policy related to text-to-speech AI and especially voice cloning technology and the threat it

u/Prior_Coyote_4376

You don’t really have to. The fundamentals have always been the same. Even AI is just an extension of pattern recognition and statistical inference we’ve known for ages. The main innovations

u/3rddog

Just retired from 30+ years as a software developer, and while I do think AI is here to stay in one form or another, if I had $1 for every time I’ve heard “this will replace programmers” I’d

u/11middle11

Test driven development advocates found their holy grail.

u/dhddydh645hggsj

Dude, people at valve get bonuses that are more than their already healthy annual salary. I bet a lot of his employees have yatchs too

u/zezoza

The good ole Kernighan's law. You can be sure is a true quote, you can find it in The Elements of Programming Style book

u/Lazerpop

For any other CEO this statement would be accurate but the working conditions at Valve are famously great

u/NotTooShahby

But you’re exactly the type of developer who will excel with AI. You learn from it, you ask it questions, you judge its output critically, and you focus more on using yours systems knowledge

u/bonsaiwave

I'm not sure anybody else in this thread understands this =\

u/scfoothills

I've had chatgpt write unit tests. It gets the concept of how to structure the code, but can't do simple shit like count. I did one not long ago where I had a function that needed to count th

u/Alive-Tomatillo5303

You're treating that like some distant impossible future, but that's specifically one of the easily quantifiable goals they're shooting for. It's probably not happening in the next six months

u/L3R4F

Maybe AI could make the whole god damn thing

u/TonySu

Exactly this. The best games are not always made by the best coders. LLMs are a very powerful tool, and those that choose to learn their way around the tools are going to get a lot out of it.

u/Away_Pin_4155

He's a travesty to m'leSTEM!!!

u/[deleted]

[deleted]

u/BeowulfShaeffer

GabeN has never been that kind of CEO though.

u/VVrayth

He owns yachts and crap just like all the others, he's no better. (EDIT: To all the people providing counterpoints below, fair enough! He's no Zuckerberg or Musk for sure. I always find cons

u/JaggedMetalOs

No they won't. As soon as AIs are actually capable of getting perfect code results on large projects, they are capable of doing the work themselves without the need for a human to copy and pa

u/EffectiveLink4781

Using AI to program is a lot like writing pseudo code and rubber ducking. Only the duck talks back. Code isn't always going to just work when you're copying and pasting, and some people will

u/3rddog

Just retired from 30+ years as a software developer, and while I do think AI is here to stay in one form or another, if I had $1 for every time I’ve heard “this will replace programmers” I’d

u/3rddog

Just retired from 30+ years as a software developer, and while I do think AI is here to stay in one form or another, if I had $1 for every time I’ve heard “this will replace programmers” I’d

u/skccsk

How did you decide that one word needed to be in quotes?

u/Okichah

My assumption is that executives and managers read about AI but never actually try and use it in development. So they have a skewed idea of its usefulness. Like cloud computing 10 years ago

u/mspurr

*You were the chosen one*! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness

u/LoserBroadside

He’s been too busy working on Half-life 3!

u/SadieWopen

I spent a week writing an automation that saves me 5 clicks maybe twice a month. Still worth it.

u/xHeylo

most perceived short cuts are just detours instead

u/TonySu

Exactly this. The best games are not always made by the best coders. LLMs are a very powerful tool, and those that choose to learn their way around the tools are going to get a lot out of it.

u/the-ferris

Remember guys, its in CEO's best interests to tell you this slop is better than it is, gotta keep the wages and moral low.

u/L3R4F

Maybe AI could make the whole god damn thing

u/whatproblems

people hate it but you’re right. it’s about as effective as any dev with here’s a bit of code no context on anything what’s to be done, how or why or what the end goal even is or the larger p

u/SocksOnHands

This happens all the time with ChatGPT. It tells me how to use some API, then I look into the source code of the library and don't see what it's talking about. I say, "are you sure that's a

u/JaggedMetalOs

No they won't. As soon as AIs are actually capable of getting perfect code results on large projects, they are capable of doing the work themselves without the need for a human to copy and pa

u/absentmindedjwc

An entire office of that one “0.1x engineer” video series. 🤣

u/Prior_Coyote_4376

You don’t really have to. The fundamentals have always been the same. Even AI is just an extension of pattern recognition and statistical inference we’ve known for ages. The main innovations

u/VhickyParm

This shit was released right when we were demanding higher wages.

u/NeuroInvertebrate

Listen dude, and I say this with all respect - I'm genuinely just trying to be helpful. The failure here was not on the part of the model. You filled its gas tank with finger paints and then

u/another-rand-83637

I'm similar, only I retired 3 years ago. I finally became curious a few months ago to see what all the fuss was about. So I coded some fairly basic stuff on my phone using 100% AI. I was very

u/absentmindedjwc

An entire office of that one “0.1x engineer” video series. 🤣

u/a-voice-in-your-head

Until AI can generate full apps and regenerate them from scratch in their entirety for new features without aid, this is pure insanity. AI can generate code, but it generates equal if not mo

u/MrVandalous

I'm going to be outing myself a little bit here but this literally happened to me. I was trying to get some help with making a front end for my Master's capstone... to host my actual Masters

u/YaBoiGPT

yeah another thing to add on is future devs will know how to use ai nicely + they'll have patience to code i've been saying this for a while but vibe coders dont have resilience for shit

u/Prior_Coyote_4376

Some shortcuts take longer

u/Lazerpop

And portal 3

u/YaBoiGPT

yeah another thing to add on is future devs will know how to use ai nicely + they'll have patience to code i've been saying this for a while but vibe coders dont have resilience for shit

u/CleverAmoeba

My assumption is that executives and managers try AI and get a shitty result, but since they don't know shit, they think that it's good. They believe they became expert in the field because L

u/Nemesis_Ghost

I've used GitHub CoPilot to write some fairly complicated Python scripts. However, I've never had it work flawlessly. Heck, I'd be satisfied with close enough to be actually useful.

u/YaBoiGPT

yeah another thing to add on is future devs will know how to use ai nicely + they'll have patience to code i've been saying this for a while but vibe coders dont have resilience for shit

u/gizmostuff

"I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flapped jaw space with a tunning fork does a raw blink on hari-kari rock. I need scissors! 61!"

u/immersive-matthew

Gabe raises a really good point. To date the only people who could make games were those with deep pockets who could hire a team, or those who could code. Those with the skills needed to m

u/Alive-Tomatillo5303

"This is as good as they will ever be!!!"

u/absentmindedjwc

It’s worse.. they get all their information on it from fucking sales pitches. The number of times I’ve have to stop executives at my company from buying into the hype of whatever miracle AI

u/NotTooShahby

But you’re exactly the type of developer who will excel with AI. You learn from it, you ask it questions, you judge its output critically, and you focus more on using yours systems knowledge

u/ikergarcia1996

AI doesn't generate shitty code anymore. At least not the latest reasoning models. The issue they have for now, is that they only work reliably on narrow scope tasks. For example, implementin

u/SadieWopen

I spent a week writing an automation that saves me 5 clicks maybe twice a month. Still worth it.

u/spideyghetti

Good enough is good enough

u/Fairuse

No, your shitty code but good idea eventually gets enough growth that you hire a real programmer to fix the mess (sucks to be the programmer doing this task).

u/whatproblems

people hate it but you’re right. it’s about as effective as any dev with here’s a bit of code no context on anything what’s to be done, how or why or what the end goal even is or the larger p

u/MrVandalous

I'm going to be outing myself a little bit here but this literally happened to me. I was trying to get some help with making a front end for my Master's capstone... to host my actual Masters

u/vpShane

He allows his developers to move around from department to department and game to game to avoid burn out, everything about Valve, and Steam has historically been amazing from dev experiences.

u/AssPennies

Oh no, Gaben drank the flavor aid :( Job security for developers who have to come in at top $$$ to clean that shit up when prod goes down, I guess.

u/Zomunieo

I can see what he’s getting at. Some developers go out of their way to reinvent the wheel because they are smart enough to, but not experienced enough to realize that their problem has been s

u/trialofmiles

Ok so for algorithm developers how is this possible? How could you possibly vibe code your way to something better than people who actually understand complexity analysis, the language they a

u/Bubbagump210

It’s great for simplistic tedious stuff - given this first line of a CSV write a create table statement.

u/Jokerthief_

You joke but as the speed Valve is (not) going vs how AI is improving...

u/creaturefeature16

While I agree, the tools are absolutely getting better at taking obtuse and unclear requests and generating decent solutions. Claude is pretty insane; I can give it minimal input and get real

u/ironmonkey007

Write unit tests and ask the AI to make it so they pass. Of course it may be challenging to write unit tests if you can’t program, but you can describe them to the AI and have it implement th

u/Okichah

My assumption is that executives and managers read about AI but never actually try and use it in development. So they have a skewed idea of its usefulness. Like cloud computing 10 years ago

u/snowsuit101

We're already brute forcing a lot of problems that would've been impossible to implement just two decades ago, there's no reason to think we won't get there with AI as well, especially when e

u/moofunk

> Try asking ChatGPT to number 10 vegetables in reverse order. It will number them 10-20. Now try to explain that it didn’t number them correctly. It will never figure out what “number in

u/KoolKat5000

It's only getting better. And it's well documented what good code looks like as opposed to bad code. The LLM will know. Just making simple extensions with LLM's and they already point out wha

u/absentmindedjwc

An entire office of that one “0.1x engineer” video series. 🤣

u/fkenned1

I hear you, and there will be issues, but if you keep telling yourself that traditional coders and their coding skills are essential to coding, you will be swallowed alive. Face it, non-coder

u/Prior_Coyote_4376

Some shortcuts take longer

u/Soul-Burn

The company I work with does surveys about AI usage. For me, the simple smart autocomplete saves a bit of typing. They see that and conclude: "MORE AI MORE BETTER". No, I just said a simple

u/dhddydh645hggsj

Dude, people at valve get bonuses that are more than their already healthy annual salary. I bet a lot of his employees have yatchs too

u/DanNeider

Ok, sure Gabe. Isn't that what they said about programmers that stopped learning binary?

u/chimi_hendrix

Remember trying to fix HTML written by every WYSIWYG editor?

u/DptBear

Are you suggesting that the only people who know how to understand a problem and solve it are programmers? Gaben is probably thinking about all the people who are strong problem solvers but n

u/Goose00

Imagine you manufacture large industrial equipment. You’ve got Sam who is 26 and has a masters in statistics and computer science. A real coding wiz. Sam is a data wiz but has no fucking clue

u/Suitable-Orange9318

I think the real answer is somewhere in between, the best future developers will be the ones who can fluently use AI tools while also having a good understanding of programming. Pure vibe-c

u/tooclosetocall82

Most people aren’t writing unique algorithms. Standard libraries typically cover what you need there.

u/TheeBigSmokee

Eventually it won't be shitty, just as eventually Will Smith was able to eat the bowl of spaghetti 🍝

u/Smugg-Fruit

It's a "scenic" route

u/penguished

Gabe hasn't worked on a game in twenty years. I don't know how he'd analyze anything about the process effectively. Vibe coding is honestly shit unless we just want to accept a world where al

u/MadOvid

And an even funnier situation where they have too hire programmers at an even higher rate to fix mistakes they don't know how to fix.

u/arcticfox

This is the take of someone who really doesn't understand what software development really entails. It's not writing code; there are significant analytical, synthesis, and evaluation proces

u/Fairuse

No, your shitty code but good idea eventually gets enough growth that you hire a real programmer to fix the mess (sucks to be the programmer doing this task).

u/JesusJuicy

Yeah pretty much actually. They’ll get so annoyed with it they’ll take the time to actually learn it for real lol and then become better, logic tracks.

u/scfoothills

I've had chatgpt write unit tests. It gets the concept of how to structure the code, but can't do simple shit like count. I did one not long ago where I had a function that needed to count th

u/chimi_hendrix

Remember trying to fix HTML written by every WYSIWYG editor?

u/stuartullman

you are thinking in present tense. he is thinking in future tense.

u/william_fontaine

And Team Fortress 3

u/Prior_Coyote_4376

Quick burn the witch before this spreads

u/skccsk

It's impossible to tell who's lying about the limitations of these tools and who's falling for the lies.

u/siromega37

We’re having this debate at work right now honestly. Like what is the end game? Do you just feed it the code and hope the feature works or do you just constantly churn through fresh code that

u/SplendidPunkinButter

It’s not though. A dev with no context on what’s to be done _will go and find out what needs to be done._ That’s literally what the job is and what you get paid for. ChatGPT doesn’t care tha

u/kopeezie

Same here, i only find value it helping me resolve odd syntax things I cannot remember, and situations where i ask it to spitball and then read what it regurgitates. Code completion has gott

u/Zomunieo

I can see what he’s getting at. Some developers go out of their way to reinvent the wheel because they are smart enough to, but not experienced enough to realize that their problem has been s

u/The_Security_Ninja

I manage a team of IT people who need to use scripting (Powershell) regularly. Not developers, but just need the odd script here and there to query things. A few of the guys always go to Cha

u/YaBoiGPT

yeah another thing to add on is future devs will know how to use ai nicely + they'll have patience to code i've been saying this for a while but vibe coders dont have resilience for shit

u/dhddydh645hggsj

Dude, people at valve get bonuses that are more than their already healthy annual salary. I bet a lot of his employees have yatchs too

u/Prior_Coyote_4376

Quick burn the witch before this spreads

u/Evilsqirrel

Yeah, I hate to admit it, but the coding models are (for the most part) mature enough to work as a good base to build from. I used it to provide a basic template for some things in Python, an

u/AssPennies

> Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it? >\- Brian

u/OfCrMcNsTy

How can you fix the shitty code that llms generate for you if you don’t know how to program and read the code? Just keep asking the llm to keep regenerating the shitty piece of code again and

u/cookingboy

So? He managed to get his billions without "keeping the wages and morale low." Valve developers make high six figures and far above industry average in terms of compensation and the morale a

u/gizmostuff

"I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flapped jaw space with a tunning fork does a raw blink on hari-kari rock. I need scissors! 61!"

u/VVrayth

He owns yachts and crap just like all the others, he's no better. (EDIT: To all the people providing counterpoints below, fair enough! He's no Zuckerberg or Musk for sure. I always find cons

u/Kindness_of_cats

He’s a billionaire whose company has long since deprioritized game development because they figured out how to rake in passive profits off a 30% cut from basically all PC game sales….unless i

u/CleverAmoeba

My assumption is that executives and managers try AI and get a shitty result, but since they don't know shit, they think that it's good. They believe they became expert in the field because L

u/Cranyx

This is honestly what worries me. Everyone points out that LLMs can't currently replace mid level developers with a deeper understanding of the code, but it is kind of at a place where it can

u/EffectiveLink4781

Using AI to program is a lot like writing pseudo code and rubber ducking. Only the duck talks back. Code isn't always going to just work when you're copying and pasting, and some people will

u/Zahgi

"AI, show me Half-Life 3!" <crickets>

u/CaterpillarReal7583

“"I think it's both," says Newell. "I think the more you understand what underlies these current tools the more effective you are at taking advantage of them, but I think we'll be in this fun

u/mspurr

*You were the chosen one*! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness

u/william_fontaine

And Team Fortress 3

u/absentmindedjwc

It’s worse.. they get all their information on it from fucking sales pitches. The number of times I’ve have to stop executives at my company from buying into the hype of whatever miracle AI

u/penguished

Gabe hasn't worked on a game in twenty years. I don't know how he'd analyze anything about the process effectively. Vibe coding is honestly shit unless we just want to accept a world where al

u/MrVandalous

I'm going to be outing myself a little bit here but this literally happened to me. I was trying to get some help with making a front end for my Master's capstone... to host my actual Masters

u/gizmostuff

"I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flapped jaw space with a tunning fork does a raw blink on hari-kari rock. I need scissors! 61!"

u/mspurr

*You were the chosen one*! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness

u/cookingboy

So? He managed to get his billions without "keeping the wages and morale low." Valve developers make high six figures and far above industry average in terms of compensation and the morale a

u/SkillPatient

I don't think he has used these AI tool to write software before. He just talking out of his ass.

u/SkillPatient

I don't think he has used these AI tool to write software before. He just talking out of his ass.

u/standard_staples

value is not quality

u/NeuroInvertebrate

As an example, I was asked by my organization to develop some training materials for our infosec policy related to text-to-speech AI and especially voice cloning technology and the threat it

u/JesusJuicy

Yeah pretty much actually. They’ll get so annoyed with it they’ll take the time to actually learn it for real lol and then become better, logic tracks.

u/Doyoulikemyjorts

From the feedback I've gotten from my buddies still in FAANG most of their time is spent talking AI though writing out good unit testing so it seems using the developers to train the LLMs to

u/absentmindedjwc

It’s worse.. they get all their information on it from fucking sales pitches. The number of times I’ve have to stop executives at my company from buying into the hype of whatever miracle AI

u/AlhazredEldritch

It's not even about this, even though this is a huge part. It's the fact the person asking an LLM has not clue what to ask FOR. They will say give me code to parse this data. The code will

u/L3R4F

Maybe AI could make the whole god damn thing

u/JesusJuicy

Yeah pretty much actually. They’ll get so annoyed with it they’ll take the time to actually learn it for real lol and then become better, logic tracks.

u/WrongdoerIll5187

That’s what he’s saying though. The domain experts are massively empowered to simply create and tinker with their own tooling. Which I think is correct. You can put front ends on your excel s

u/AssPennies

> Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it? >\- Brian

u/dwhite21787

And I, a 40 year grey beard coder, could whip that out using 98% stock Unix/linux existing commands in about an hour. But companies are to the point where they hire cheap and blow the time,

u/bonsaiwave

I'm not sure anybody else in this thread understands this =\

u/AssPennies

> Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it? >\- Brian

u/Cranyx

This is honestly what worries me. Everyone points out that LLMs can't currently replace mid level developers with a deeper understanding of the code, but it is kind of at a place where it can

u/TheeBigSmokee

Eventually it won't be shitty, just as eventually Will Smith was able to eat the bowl of spaghetti 🍝

u/Alive-Tomatillo5303

You're treating that like some distant impossible future, but that's specifically one of the easily quantifiable goals they're shooting for. It's probably not happening in the next six months

u/the-ferris

Remember guys, its in CEO's best interests to tell you this slop is better than it is, gotta keep the wages and moral low.

u/TheeBigSmokee

Eventually it won't be shitty, just as eventually Will Smith was able to eat the bowl of spaghetti 🍝

u/standard_staples

value is not quality

u/CaterpillarReal7583

“"I think it's both," says Newell. "I think the more you understand what underlies these current tools the more effective you are at taking advantage of them, but I think we'll be in this fun

u/Top-Respond-3744

So far chances of that are very low. This AI is not a problem solving machine, it’s a pleasing machine. It spits out what it can regardless of that solves the stated problem or not within t

u/skccsk

Well, sometimes it's easy to tell. My mistake.

u/Leading_Ad5095

You just keep telling it to fix it until it fixes it. Even if it makes completely weird code, as long as it works, does it really matter? For example, I asked it to make a Pac-Man clone. I

u/Suitable-Orange9318

I think the real answer is somewhere in between, the best future developers will be the ones who can fluently use AI tools while also having a good understanding of programming. Pure vibe-c

u/the-ferris

Remember guys, its in CEO's best interests to tell you this slop is better than it is, gotta keep the wages and moral low.

u/ImDonaldDunn

It’s only useful if you already know how to develop and are able to describe what you want in a systematic way. It’s essentially a glorified junior developer. You have to have enough experien

u/PatchyWhiskers

Gabe should try it and put his hypothesis to the test.

u/ikergarcia1996

AI doesn't generate shitty code anymore. At least not the latest reasoning models. The issue they have for now, is that they only work reliably on narrow scope tasks. For example, implementin

u/stuartullman

you are thinking in present tense. he is thinking in future tense.

u/VhickyParm

This shit was released right when we were demanding higher wages.

u/the-ferris

Remember guys, its in CEO's best interests to tell you this slop is better than it is, gotta keep the wages and moral low.

u/TICKLE_PANTS

I've spent a lot of time around developers who have no idea what the problem actually is. Code distorts your mind from the end product. I don't doubt that those that are customer facing and a

u/Future-Bandicoot-823

MY TIME TO SHINE, BABY! I've always been code conscious, and also in love with engineering. I went to college for computer science but dropped out, and I've been a photographer ever since.

u/SplendidPunkinButter

That’s not even true. I’ve had LLMs do things I explicitly told them not to do numerous times. Try asking ChatGPT to number 10 vegetables in reverse order. It will number them 10-20. Now try

u/OriginalBid129

Maybe but Gabe Newell also hasn't programmed for ages.

u/Lazerpop

For any other CEO this statement would be accurate but the working conditions at Valve are famously great

u/NeuroInvertebrate

As an example, I was asked by my organization to develop some training materials for our infosec policy related to text-to-speech AI and especially voice cloning technology and the threat it

u/dwhite21787

And I, a 40 year grey beard coder, could whip that out using 98% stock Unix/linux existing commands in about an hour. But companies are to the point where they hire cheap and blow the time,

u/Steamed_Memes24

> n passive profits off a 30% cut from basically all PC game sales Most of which gets reinvested back to the developers. They pay for things like payment portal, integrated mod support, s

u/absentmindedjwc

Counterpoint.. AI devs and researchers only have a somewhat-limited understanding around why modern GenAI even works the way it does. They’re iterating on it by throwing more hardware at it

u/ironmonkey007

Write unit tests and ask the AI to make it so they pass. Of course it may be challenging to write unit tests if you can’t program, but you can describe them to the AI and have it implement th

u/effyochicken

Same, but with Python. I'm now learning how to code out of frustration at AI feeding me incomplete and error-prone code. "Uhh AI - There's an error in this code" "Great catch! :) Here's a n

u/effyochicken

Same, but with Python. I'm now learning how to code out of frustration at AI feeding me incomplete and error-prone code. "Uhh AI - There's an error in this code" "Great catch! :) Here's a n

u/stickyfantastic

One thing I'm curious about is how correctly done BDD/TDD works with shotgunning generated code. Like, you define the specific test cases well enough, start rapidly reprompting for code wi

u/trouthat

I just had to fix an issue that stemmed from fixing a failing unit test and not verifying the behavior actually works

u/aerokopf

Realistically, wouldn't they just hire a couple of senior devs to debug and not worry about employing junior devs at all? The LLM prompter(s) would be paid a fraction of a team of junior devs

u/Prior_Coyote_4376

Quick burn the witch before this spreads

u/SocksOnHands

This happens all the time with ChatGPT. It tells me how to use some API, then I look into the source code of the library and don't see what it's talking about. I say, "are you sure that's a

u/BeowulfShaeffer

GabeN has never been that kind of CEO though.

u/BeowulfShaeffer

Grace Hopper got yelled at for wasting time when she created the first compilers. You think llm-driven compilers won’t rapidly improve?

u/trouthat

I just had to fix an issue that stemmed from fixing a failing unit test and not verifying the behavior actually works

u/OriginalBid129

Maybe but Gabe Newell also hasn't programmed for ages.

u/3rddog

>The domain experts are massively empowered to simply create and tinker with their own tooling. I’ve heard it said, but never yet seen it done. Will AI be any different? 🤷‍♂️

u/WrongdoerIll5187

That’s what he’s saying though. The domain experts are massively empowered to simply create and tinker with their own tooling. Which I think is correct. You can put front ends on your excel s

u/cookingboy

Maybe not yacht owning rich but many, if not most long time Valve developers are multi-millionaires who've done extremely well in an otherwise cut throat race-to-the-bottom industry. It's pr

u/scfoothills

I've had chatgpt write unit tests. It gets the concept of how to structure the code, but can't do simple shit like count. I did one not long ago where I had a function that needed to count th

u/davenobody

Describing what your are trying to build is the difficult part of programming. Code is easy. Solving problems that have been solved a hundred times over is easy. They are easy to explain a

u/[deleted]

[deleted]

u/SplendidPunkinButter

It’s not though. A dev with no context on what’s to be done _will go and find out what needs to be done._ That’s literally what the job is and what you get paid for. ChatGPT doesn’t care tha

u/Hypevosa

Well, the question is in what regard you think the code is "shitty". Human legibility and understanding aren't technically required - some of the best and most efficient code is bitwise mani

u/OddGoldfish

When assembly was introduced we spent less time debugging things at the binary level. When C was introduced we spent less time debugging things at assembly level. When Java was introduced we

u/Alive-Tomatillo5303

You must be one of those brave outsiders. It's OK, making mistakes is kinda your "thing".

u/Fairuse

No, your shitty code but good idea eventually gets enough growth that you hire a real programmer to fix the mess (sucks to be the programmer doing this task).

u/3rddog

That’s assuming the AI “understands” the test, which they probably don’t. And really, what you’re talking about is like an infinite number of monkeys writing code until the tests pass. When y

u/standard_staples

value is not quality

u/L3R4F

Maybe AI could make the whole god damn thing

u/NeuroInvertebrate

Listen dude, and I say this with all respect - I'm genuinely just trying to be helpful. The failure here was not on the part of the model. You filled its gas tank with finger paints and then

u/eldragon225

Eventually the code stops being shitty

u/zezoza

The good ole Kernighan's law. You can be sure is a true quote, you can find it in The Elements of Programming Style book

u/BeowulfShaeffer

It probably will happen. Ask yourself how good you are as an assembly programmer. Is it important to know assembler today? The _vast_ majority of developers couldn’t develop in it effectiv

u/PatchyWhiskers

Gabe should try it and put his hypothesis to the test.

u/cookingboy

So? He managed to get his billions without "keeping the wages and morale low." Valve developers make high six figures and far above industry average in terms of compensation and the morale a

u/PatchyWhiskers

Maybe AI can finish that for him…

u/DptBear

Are you suggesting that the only people who know how to understand a problem and solve it are programmers? Gaben is probably thinking about all the people who are strong problem solvers but n

u/defeatedmac

Probably not. The actual skill that makes a good developer has always been error-tracing and problem solving. Modern AI can replace the man-hours required to code big projects but has a long

u/zezoza

The good ole Kernighan's law. You can be sure is a true quote, you can find it in The Elements of Programming Style book

u/hapoo

I don’t believe that for a second. Programming is less about actually writing code than understanding a problem and knowing how to solve it. A person who doesn’t know how to program probably

u/thievesthick

TIL Gabe Newell is kind of a dingaling.

u/Joshwoum8

It takes as much time to debug the garbage AI generates as it does to just write it yourself.

u/TICKLE_PANTS

I've spent a lot of time around developers who have no idea what the problem actually is. Code distorts your mind from the end product. I don't doubt that those that are customer facing and a

u/AssPennies

Oh no, Gaben drank the flavor aid :( Job security for developers who have to come in at top $$$ to clean that shit up when prod goes down, I guess.

u/TONKAHANAH

trial and error. its not efficient but it can work.

u/Prior_Coyote_4376

Some shortcuts take longer

u/xHeylo

most perceived short cuts are just detours instead

u/cookingboy

So? He managed to get his billions without "keeping the wages and morale low." Valve developers make high six figures and far above industry average in terms of compensation and the morale a

u/OfCrMcNsTy

How can you fix the shitty code that llms generate for you if you don’t know how to program and read the code? Just keep asking the llm to keep regenerating the shitty piece of code again and

u/defeatedmac

Probably not. The actual skill that makes a good developer has always been error-tracing and problem solving. Modern AI can replace the man-hours required to code big projects but has a long

u/BringerOfGifts

Good old abstraction at it again. But really, this is just the natural state of processing information. Abstractions are necessary for us to handle more complex tasks. Your own brain even do

u/SplendidPunkinButter

That’s not even true. I’ve had LLMs do things I explicitly told them not to do numerous times. Try asking ChatGPT to number 10 vegetables in reverse order. It will number them 10-20. Now try

u/Alive-Tomatillo5303

You're treating that like some distant impossible future, but that's specifically one of the easily quantifiable goals they're shooting for. It's probably not happening in the next six months

u/Lazerpop

For any other CEO this statement would be accurate but the working conditions at Valve are famously great

u/TICKLE_PANTS

I've spent a lot of time around developers who have no idea what the problem actually is. Code distorts your mind from the end product. I don't doubt that those that are customer facing and a

u/EffectiveLink4781

Using AI to program is a lot like writing pseudo code and rubber ducking. Only the duck talks back. Code isn't always going to just work when you're copying and pasting, and some people will

u/hapoo

I don’t believe that for a second. Programming is less about actually writing code than understanding a problem and knowing how to solve it. A person who doesn’t know how to program probably

u/VVrayth

He owns yachts and crap just like all the others, he's no better. (EDIT: To all the people providing counterpoints below, fair enough! He's no Zuckerberg or Musk for sure. I always find cons

u/WrongdoerIll5187

That’s what he’s saying though. The domain experts are massively empowered to simply create and tinker with their own tooling. Which I think is correct. You can put front ends on your excel s

u/Jokerthief_

You joke but as the speed Valve is (not) going vs how AI is improving...

u/Prior_Coyote_4376

Quick burn the witch before this spreads

u/Zomunieo

I can see what he’s getting at. Some developers go out of their way to reinvent the wheel because they are smart enough to, but not experienced enough to realize that their problem has been s

u/Lazerpop

And portal 3

u/MadOvid

And an even funnier situation where they have too hire programmers at an even higher rate to fix mistakes they don't know how to fix.

u/moofunk

> Try asking ChatGPT to number 10 vegetables in reverse order. It will number them 10-20. Now try to explain that it didn’t number them correctly. It will never figure out what “number in

u/AssPennies

Oh no, Gaben drank the flavor aid :( Job security for developers who have to come in at top $$$ to clean that shit up when prod goes down, I guess.

u/bonsaiwave

I'm not sure anybody else in this thread understands this =\

u/DptBear

Are you suggesting that the only people who know how to understand a problem and solve it are programmers? Gaben is probably thinking about all the people who are strong problem solvers but n

u/Jokerthief_

You joke but as the speed Valve is (not) going vs how AI is improving...

u/Doyoulikemyjorts

From the feedback I've gotten from my buddies still in FAANG most of their time is spent talking AI though writing out good unit testing so it seems using the developers to train the LLMs to

u/Okichah

My assumption is that executives and managers read about AI but never actually try and use it in development. So they have a skewed idea of its usefulness. Like cloud computing 10 years ago

u/Kindness_of_cats

He’s a billionaire whose company has long since deprioritized game development because they figured out how to rake in passive profits off a 30% cut from basically all PC game sales….unless i

u/davenobody

Describing what your are trying to build is the difficult part of programming. Code is easy. Solving problems that have been solved a hundred times over is easy. They are easy to explain a

u/RedditIsFiction

People with no programming background won't be able to say what unit tests should be written let alone write meaningful ones.

u/Alive-Tomatillo5303

Not on Reddit. On according to Reddit in general and this sub in particular it's literally everyone in the industry who's both lying about the limitations AND falling for the lies, and only t

u/VhickyParm

This shit was released right when we were demanding higher wages.

u/skccsk

It's impossible to tell who's lying about the limitations of these tools and who's falling for the lies.

u/effyochicken

Same, but with Python. I'm now learning how to code out of frustration at AI feeding me incomplete and error-prone code. "Uhh AI - There's an error in this code" "Great catch! :) Here's a n

u/stuartullman

you are thinking in present tense. he is thinking in future tense.

u/standard_staples

value is not quality

u/another-rand-83637

I'm similar, only I retired 3 years ago. I finally became curious a few months ago to see what all the fuss was about. So I coded some fairly basic stuff on my phone using 100% AI. I was very

u/hapoo

I don’t believe that for a second. Programming is less about actually writing code than understanding a problem and knowing how to solve it. A person who doesn’t know how to program probably

u/Lazerpop

And portal 3

u/11middle11

Test driven development advocates found their holy grail.

u/OfCrMcNsTy

How can you fix the shitty code that llms generate for you if you don’t know how to program and read the code? Just keep asking the llm to keep regenerating the shitty piece of code again and

u/Alive-Tomatillo5303

You're treating that like some distant impossible future, but that's specifically one of the easily quantifiable goals they're shooting for. It's probably not happening in the next six months

u/dhddydh645hggsj

Dude, people at valve get bonuses that are more than their already healthy annual salary. I bet a lot of his employees have yatchs too

u/JellyfishNo3810

What is somewhat interesting for me to purview here is that there’s a lot of you talking about “code” and “coding”. Standardized curriculum, developed and established philosophies, and a gene

u/BringerOfGifts

Good old abstraction at it again. But really, this is just the natural state of processing information. Abstractions are necessary for us to handle more complex tasks. Your own brain even do

u/AssPennies

> Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it? >\- Brian

u/Altiloquent

You could just ask the LLM to explain it

u/Prior_Coyote_4376

You don’t really have to. The fundamentals have always been the same. Even AI is just an extension of pattern recognition and statistical inference we’ve known for ages. The main innovations

u/OddGoldfish

When assembly was introduced we spent less time debugging things at the binary level. When C was introduced we spent less time debugging things at assembly level. When Java was introduced we

u/ikergarcia1996

AI doesn't generate shitty code anymore. At least not the latest reasoning models. The issue they have for now, is that they only work reliably on narrow scope tasks. For example, implementin

u/LoserBroadside

He’s been too busy working on Half-life 3!

u/william_fontaine

And Team Fortress 3

u/3rddog

Bingo. A large part of a developer’s job is to extract business requirements from people who may be subject matter experts but don’t know how to describe the subject in ways that coherent rul

u/Steamed_Memes24

> n passive profits off a 30% cut from basically all PC game sales Most of which gets reinvested back to the developers. They pay for things like payment portal, integrated mod support, s

u/PatchyWhiskers

Maybe AI can finish that for him…

u/defeatedmac

Probably not. The actual skill that makes a good developer has always been error-tracing and problem solving. Modern AI can replace the man-hours required to code big projects but has a long

u/Altiloquent

You could just ask the LLM to explain it

u/A532

Steam and GabeN is the greatest thing that has happened in the PC gaming world for decades.

u/stickyfantastic

One thing I'm curious about is how correctly done BDD/TDD works with shotgunning generated code. Like, you define the specific test cases well enough, start rapidly reprompting for code wi

u/VVrayth

He owns yachts and crap just like all the others, he's no better. (EDIT: To all the people providing counterpoints below, fair enough! He's no Zuckerberg or Musk for sure. I always find cons

u/SkillPatient

I don't think he has used these AI tool to write software before. He just talking out of his ass.

u/immersive-matthew

Gabe raises a really good point. To date the only people who could make games were those with deep pockets who could hire a team, or those who could code. Those with the skills needed to m

u/davenobody

Describing what your are trying to build is the difficult part of programming. Code is easy. Solving problems that have been solved a hundred times over is easy. They are easy to explain a

u/A532

Steam and GabeN is the greatest thing that has happened in the PC gaming world for decades.

u/Nemesis_Ghost

I've used GitHub CoPilot to write some fairly complicated Python scripts. However, I've never had it work flawlessly. Heck, I'd be satisfied with close enough to be actually useful.

u/kopeezie

Same here, i only find value it helping me resolve odd syntax things I cannot remember, and situations where i ask it to spitball and then read what it regurgitates. Code completion has gott

u/JesusJuicy

Yeah pretty much actually. They’ll get so annoyed with it they’ll take the time to actually learn it for real lol and then become better, logic tracks.

u/DptBear

Are you suggesting that the only people who know how to understand a problem and solve it are programmers? Gaben is probably thinking about all the people who are strong problem solvers but n

u/KoolKat5000

It's only getting better. And it's well documented what good code looks like as opposed to bad code. The LLM will know. Just making simple extensions with LLM's and they already point out wha

u/BeowulfShaeffer

GabeN has never been that kind of CEO though.

u/spideyghetti

Good enough is good enough

u/11middle11

Test driven development advocates found their holy grail.

u/JaggedMetalOs

No they won't. As soon as AIs are actually capable of getting perfect code results on large projects, they are capable of doing the work themselves without the need for a human to copy and pa

u/Bubbagump210

It’s great for simplistic tedious stuff - given this first line of a CSV write a create table statement.

u/Doyoulikemyjorts

From the feedback I've gotten from my buddies still in FAANG most of their time is spent talking AI though writing out good unit testing so it seems using the developers to train the LLMs to

u/Kindness_of_cats

He’s a billionaire whose company has long since deprioritized game development because they figured out how to rake in passive profits off a 30% cut from basically all PC game sales….unless i

u/xHeylo

most perceived short cuts are just detours instead

u/a-voice-in-your-head

Until AI can generate full apps and regenerate them from scratch in their entirety for new features without aid, this is pure insanity. AI can generate code, but it generates equal if not mo

u/Zahgi

"AI, show me Half-Life 3!" <crickets>

u/SocksOnHands

This happens all the time with ChatGPT. It tells me how to use some API, then I look into the source code of the library and don't see what it's talking about. I say, "are you sure that's a

u/Prior_Coyote_4376

You don’t really have to. The fundamentals have always been the same. Even AI is just an extension of pattern recognition and statistical inference we’ve known for ages. The main innovations

u/Nemesis_Ghost

I've used GitHub CoPilot to write some fairly complicated Python scripts. However, I've never had it work flawlessly. Heck, I'd be satisfied with close enough to be actually useful.

u/NeuroInvertebrate

Listen dude, and I say this with all respect - I'm genuinely just trying to be helpful. The failure here was not on the part of the model. You filled its gas tank with finger paints and then

u/AlhazredEldritch

It's not even about this, even though this is a huge part. It's the fact the person asking an LLM has not clue what to ask FOR. They will say give me code to parse this data. The code will

u/Lazerpop

And portal 3

u/absentmindedjwc

An entire office of that one “0.1x engineer” video series. 🤣

u/3rddog

>The domain experts are massively empowered to simply create and tinker with their own tooling. I’ve heard it said, but never yet seen it done. Will AI be any different? 🤷‍♂️

u/Jokerthief_

You joke but as the speed Valve is (not) going vs how AI is improving...

u/RedditIsFiction

People with no programming background won't be able to say what unit tests should be written let alone write meaningful ones.

u/11middle11

Test driven development advocates found their holy grail.

u/chimi_hendrix

Remember trying to fix HTML written by every WYSIWYG editor?

u/3rddog

Bingo. A large part of a developer’s job is to extract business requirements from people who may be subject matter experts but don’t know how to describe the subject in ways that coherent rul

u/ironmonkey007

Write unit tests and ask the AI to make it so they pass. Of course it may be challenging to write unit tests if you can’t program, but you can describe them to the AI and have it implement th

u/SadieWopen

I spent a week writing an automation that saves me 5 clicks maybe twice a month. Still worth it.

u/trouthat

I just had to fix an issue that stemmed from fixing a failing unit test and not verifying the behavior actually works

u/OddGoldfish

When assembly was introduced we spent less time debugging things at the binary level. When C was introduced we spent less time debugging things at assembly level. When Java was introduced we

u/whatproblems

people hate it but you’re right. it’s about as effective as any dev with here’s a bit of code no context on anything what’s to be done, how or why or what the end goal even is or the larger p

u/Total_Adept

MIT already did a study showing people who use LLM’s have less brain activity and no understanding of what they generate.

u/OriginalBid129

Maybe but Gabe Newell also hasn't programmed for ages.

u/3rddog

Bingo. A large part of a developer’s job is to extract business requirements from people who may be subject matter experts but don’t know how to describe the subject in ways that coherent rul

u/Prior_Coyote_4376

Some shortcuts take longer

u/Steamed_Memes24

> n passive profits off a 30% cut from basically all PC game sales Most of which gets reinvested back to the developers. They pay for things like payment portal, integrated mod support, s

u/AlhazredEldritch

It's not even about this, even though this is a huge part. It's the fact the person asking an LLM has not clue what to ask FOR. They will say give me code to parse this data. The code will

u/vpShane

He allows his developers to move around from department to department and game to game to avoid burn out, everything about Valve, and Steam has historically been amazing from dev experiences.

u/CleverAmoeba

Don't confuse compilers with AI. Compilers generate predictable result for an input, no matter who types it and when compile it. LLMs just output whatever text they find in their dataset that

u/stuartullman

you are thinking in present tense. he is thinking in future tense.

u/hapoo

I don’t believe that for a second. Programming is less about actually writing code than understanding a problem and knowing how to solve it. A person who doesn’t know how to program probably

u/3rddog

This might work for Pac Man - when you break it down the rules for Pac Man are pretty simple - but try applying it to something like an ERP or payroll system with a few orders of magnitude mo

u/RedditIsFiction

People with no programming background won't be able to say what unit tests should be written let alone write meaningful ones.

u/vpShane

He allows his developers to move around from department to department and game to game to avoid burn out, everything about Valve, and Steam has historically been amazing from dev experiences.

u/Bubbagump210

It’s great for simplistic tedious stuff - given this first line of a CSV write a create table statement.

u/kopeezie

Same here, i only find value it helping me resolve odd syntax things I cannot remember, and situations where i ask it to spitball and then read what it regurgitates. Code completion has gott

u/CleverAmoeba

I can think of a situation when understanding Reactive Programming can solve the performance issue while prompting AI to "make it faster" can't.

u/Goose00

Imagine you manufacture large industrial equipment. You’ve got Sam who is 26 and has a masters in statistics and computer science. A real coding wiz. Sam is a data wiz but has no fucking clue

u/Altiloquent

You could just ask the LLM to explain it

u/TonySu

Exactly this. The best games are not always made by the best coders. LLMs are a very powerful tool, and those that choose to learn their way around the tools are going to get a lot out of it.

u/MrVandalous

I'm going to be outing myself a little bit here but this literally happened to me. I was trying to get some help with making a front end for my Master's capstone... to host my actual Masters

u/TheeBigSmokee

Eventually it won't be shitty, just as eventually Will Smith was able to eat the bowl of spaghetti 🍝

u/william_fontaine

And Team Fortress 3

u/Suitable-Orange9318

I think the real answer is somewhere in between, the best future developers will be the ones who can fluently use AI tools while also having a good understanding of programming. Pure vibe-c

u/spideyghetti

Good enough is good enough

u/dwhite21787

And I, a 40 year grey beard coder, could whip that out using 98% stock Unix/linux existing commands in about an hour. But companies are to the point where they hire cheap and blow the time,

u/NotTooShahby

But you’re exactly the type of developer who will excel with AI. You learn from it, you ask it questions, you judge its output critically, and you focus more on using yours systems knowledge

u/eldragon225

Eventually the code stops being shitty

u/OriginalBid129

Maybe but Gabe Newell also hasn't programmed for ages.

u/MrThickDick2023

Being rich and/or yachts doesn't make you evil. Has he become rich exploiting his employees? It doesn't seem to be so.

u/SplendidPunkinButter

That’s not even true. I’ve had LLMs do things I explicitly told them not to do numerous times. Try asking ChatGPT to number 10 vegetables in reverse order. It will number them 10-20. Now try

u/Soul-Burn

The company I work with does surveys about AI usage. For me, the simple smart autocomplete saves a bit of typing. They see that and conclude: "MORE AI MORE BETTER". No, I just said a simple

u/penguished

Gabe hasn't worked on a game in twenty years. I don't know how he'd analyze anything about the process effectively. Vibe coding is honestly shit unless we just want to accept a world where al

u/a-voice-in-your-head

Until AI can generate full apps and regenerate them from scratch in their entirety for new features without aid, this is pure insanity. AI can generate code, but it generates equal if not mo

u/eldragon225

Eventually the code stops being shitty

u/CleverAmoeba

My assumption is that executives and managers try AI and get a shitty result, but since they don't know shit, they think that it's good. They believe they became expert in the field because L

u/Okichah

My assumption is that executives and managers read about AI but never actually try and use it in development. So they have a skewed idea of its usefulness. Like cloud computing 10 years ago

u/ImDonaldDunn

It’s only useful if you already know how to develop and are able to describe what you want in a systematic way. It’s essentially a glorified junior developer. You have to have enough experien

u/Suitable-Orange9318

I think the real answer is somewhere in between, the best future developers will be the ones who can fluently use AI tools while also having a good understanding of programming. Pure vibe-c

u/Famous-Coffee

Here's my add-on prediction. Clever children will invent AI agents that do wildly insane things that only kids can dream up. Some of these things will lead t serious or hilarious consequences

u/3rddog

u/Soul-Burn

The company I work with does surveys about AI usage. For me, the simple smart autocomplete saves a bit of typing. They see that and conclude: "MORE AI MORE BETTER". No, I just said a simple

u/vpShane

He allows his developers to move around from department to department and game to game to avoid burn out, everything about Valve, and Steam has historically been amazing from dev experiences.

u/Chaos_Burger

Its hard to tell exactly what Gabe meant, but I am an engineer who is using AI to help generate code for an Arduino because I am just not very good with C++. I am in R&D and making protot

u/ironmonkey007

Write unit tests and ask the AI to make it so they pass. Of course it may be challenging to write unit tests if you can’t program, but you can describe them to the AI and have it implement th

u/jsgnextortex

This is only true at this very moment in history tho...I assume Gabe is talking about the scenario where AI can poop out decent code, which should theoretically happen eventually.

u/Zahgi

"AI, show me Half-Life 3!" <crickets>

u/VhickyParm

This shit was released right when we were demanding higher wages.

u/CaterpillarReal7583

“"I think it's both," says Newell. "I think the more you understand what underlies these current tools the more effective you are at taking advantage of them, but I think we'll be in this fun

u/Lazerpop

For any other CEO this statement would be accurate but the working conditions at Valve are famously great

u/Nemesis_Ghost

I've used GitHub CoPilot to write some fairly complicated Python scripts. However, I've never had it work flawlessly. Heck, I'd be satisfied with close enough to be actually useful.

u/PatchyWhiskers

Maybe AI can finish that for him…

u/CleverAmoeba

My assumption is that executives and managers try AI and get a shitty result, but since they don't know shit, they think that it's good. They believe they became expert in the field because L

u/3rddog

Bingo. A large part of a developer’s job is to extract business requirements from people who may be subject matter experts but don’t know how to describe the subject in ways that coherent rul

u/ImDonaldDunn

It’s only useful if you already know how to develop and are able to describe what you want in a systematic way. It’s essentially a glorified junior developer. You have to have enough experien

u/eldragon225

Eventually the code stops being shitty

u/trouthat

I just had to fix an issue that stemmed from fixing a failing unit test and not verifying the behavior actually works

u/chimi_hendrix

Remember trying to fix HTML written by every WYSIWYG editor?

u/frommethodtomadness

HIGHLY doubt lmfao

u/Smugg-Fruit

It's a "scenic" route

u/AlhazredEldritch

It's not even about this, even though this is a huge part. It's the fact the person asking an LLM has not clue what to ask FOR. They will say give me code to parse this data. The code will

u/another-rand-83637

I'm similar, only I retired 3 years ago. I finally became curious a few months ago to see what all the fuss was about. So I coded some fairly basic stuff on my phone using 100% AI. I was very

Origin Reddit Post

r/technology

Gabe Newell thinks AI tools will result in a 'funny situation' where people who don't know how to program become 'more effective developers of value' than those who've been at it for a decade

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