Market men's self-improvement by validating the 'lookism' phenomenon.
The Reddit discussion (112) really drives home the point that being physically attractive, especially for men who are fit, can make a big difference in how others treat you. There's a strong undercurrent of frustration and feeling like they're being gaslit when this observation, particularly when it's made by men, is denied or downplayed. This reveals a highly engaged and emotionally charged market.
There's a huge opportunity for men's grooming, fitness, and style brands to build genuine rapport by directly validating these widely held male experiences in their marketing. Instead of vague, aspirational ads, messaging that honestly acknowledges the practical reality—like, "Life can genuinely be easier, and people often treat you better when you're in good shape. We get it."—will resonate deeply. This approach addresses a sensitive, often unspoken truth, builds trust with a demographic that feels their perspective is dismissed, and positions products as real tools for navigating this societal dynamic.
Origin Reddit Post
r/science
Looks do matter, finds study that examined how physical attractiveness affects service outcomes. In many cases, people judge service workers not just on what they do, but on how they look. Su
Posted by u/mvea•06/24/2025
Top Comments
u/DrMobius0
I thought it was to follow rules 1 and 2
u/NotInCanada
Not even unattractive. Just average looking.
It's hilarious anyone would call this result surprising.
u/airbear13
“Looks DO indeed matter, a whole lot actually, just in case you ugly mfs forgot for one second that you’re ugly and will constantly suffer hardship because of it; thank you and you’re welcome
u/FormerOSRS
This tracks my personal experience well.
I'm on the good side of it. I'm a mega muscular 230 lb beast. I'm on steroids, but the average person thinking of steroids is imagining a .00001% phy
u/Psych0PompOs
I mean is it really bragging if I'm saying that people think I'm weird and my personality can be a turn off so when someone likes me I know in most cases they wouldn't if they got to know me?
u/Mesalted
Yeah i know, but he just declined politely and said he wouldn't betray his girlfriend like that. He seemed like a great and stable guy, or maybe that's the halo effect in me talking. She seem
u/Psych0PompOs
Yeah definitely. It's useful, people project a lot of good things onto me and I can just play along in person and my life is easier for it. When they get to know me then it's all "you're weir
u/Psych0PompOs
When I say they're "trusted" I mean trusted to be a good person, most people give women the benefit of the doubt. What you're talking about is them being viewed as "knowledgeable" and that's
u/rjcarr
Like 80% of men just go through life invisible. You have to be top 20% (10%?) before women go out of their way to notice you.
u/Eggsformycat
And on top of that, most people don't have a winning personality.
u/Abject_Musician_3707
Fish found in the ocean
u/Flobking
> Coming out of COVID I had lost 30 pounds and put on a bit of muscle, it was remarkable how much nicer everyone treated me.
A woman posted a few days/weeks/months(who can even keep track
u/LurkingTamilian
This paper seems to be specifically talking about the service industry. People are extrapolating too much in the comments to other areas.
u/reddituser567853
Humble brag
u/ArtisticRiskNew1212
So men’s looks do matter. People who say otherwise are delusional
u/TheBestMePlausible
If it makes you feel any better, you can grow up being good looking, kind of depend on it, then suddenly your looks go away and you’re left without all the coping strategies everybody normal
u/flashmedallion
I've been depressed as hell and never felt wanted but have had to be informed multiple times that I am coasting on pretty privilege. Once I started looking for it, it began to seem apparent.
u/Only_the_Tip
Oh boy, save some of that outrage for when you see the results of the study on penis size.
u/Designer-Pen-7332
Do you not know the infamous dating advice for men on reddit " focus on personality, looks don't matter"
u/ArtisticRiskNew1212
So men’s looks do matter. People who say otherwise are delusional
u/Psych0PompOs
Women get trust by default typically regardless of looks, men don't.
u/SimthingEvilLurks
I don’t pay attention to looks. Life is hard. It costs nothing to be decent to everyone that does nothing wrong to you. It’s shameful I’m part of a minority.
u/JustSimplyTheWorst
Oh no.... what were the results?!
u/CQC_EXE
Human monkey brains are just too rooted in judging people this way. Even if you actively try not to, it's definitely messing with your subconscious thoughts.
u/minimac1
there are plenty of studies that have looked at the correlation between fortune 500 ceos and height and we can see how disproportionately tall people are represented in these demographics.
u/L_knight316
"How people evaluate men relies more on attractiveness than it does for women..."
Anyone remind of that one dating app study where women regarded 80% of men as "below average?"
u/977888
No but also probably yes
u/JustSimplyTheWorst
Ah, this is must be why nobody likes me. Glad we could finally narrow it down.
u/Ephemerror
Umm are we still talking about service workers?
u/Eggsformycat
I think a good personality will definitely help because nothing is worse than bad looks and bad personality. Then you really get shut out of society.
u/Vast_Category_1883
Always listen to a woman's actions rather than her words is good advice. This generation in general puts looks on top of everything and it's a lot harder for a man to find a partner now than
u/iridescent-shimmer
This kind of research is so interesting to me! I tried to do my undergrad research on a similar concept, but didn't get enough participants to find a statistically significant result. I was t
u/toolateforfate
I don't want to see any comment in here saying this was already known/expected
u/GeneDiesel1
Damn, that sounds like too much work.
u/Gold4Lokos4Breakfast
On the other hand, I’m a tiny little 130lb dude, but I’m 6’1 and have a nice face. I’m always treated very well. I’ve actually worked as a model too. Muscles aren’t the only the way for guys
u/14X8000m
I'd like to outrage please.
u/[deleted]
[deleted]
u/977888
Yep. It’s hard to win people over with your personality when they don’t even want to talk to you
u/Psych0PompOs
That's been my experience of relationships too, I've always thought this way, they're just things that happen because people exist and you cross paths. I never really put much thought into it
u/Alpine_Exchange_36
At the end of the day we are just animals who like pretty things. Attractive men and women will always have an advantage and no amount of policy or virtue signaling will change that
u/SeizureSalad1991
It's just funny this made me think of a post a while ago with (I think) Chris Hemsworth or Henry Caville getting asked a question about dating or something and they say, "Oh you know, just wa
u/Djaii
It could be more than one thing, no reason to limit yourself.
u/Only_the_Tip
Oh boy, save some of that outrage for when you see the results of the study on penis size.
u/Appropriate-Mango385
My point is I admire it, how they got it aside.
u/Ttabts
A good portion of "good looks" is quite controllable though. Get in shape, learn to groom yourself well, get a flattering haircut, dress well, take care of your skin, smile and make eye conta
u/ImitationMetalHead
Maybe I should stop giving that advice out honestly. I'm reasonably in shape, and it definitely has been my experience that love finds you. It's advice I've consistently given my friends, but
u/Psych0PompOs
Makes sense, people often default to seeing women as nurturing and so on so even an unattractive woman can be viewed favorably. An unattractive guy is at risk of being labeled a creep just fo
u/cutekiwi
This is talked about quite a bit in studies actually. Not so much feedback loop specifically but that the perception of attractive people socially is implied they're nicer, more truthful and
u/NotInCanada
Not even unattractive. Just average looking.
It's hilarious anyone would call this result surprising.
u/CriticDanger
Probably the constant gaslighting on all kinds of social media saying that they don't and that women aren't superficial?
u/FormerOSRS
I'm a 230 lb roided out muscular beast.
Zero institutionally valid reason to respect me beyond some bare minimal reserved for any human being, but I get treated very well by everyone, and it
u/speculatrix
It's why adverts target women's insecurities about getting older, losing their looks, gaining weight, greying hair, wrinkly skin etc.
https://www.statista.com/topics/1008/cosmetics-industry
u/fegodev
A friend once told me: “Don’t worry about finding someone to date, love will come to you, it will find you”—He’s crazy attractive; he doesn’t even have to flirt with anyone, women and gays ar
u/tboy160
I have a friend that will automatically tip less if the server is a man or is not attractive.
He will also tip more if she is attractive, even if she was terrible.
I am opposite of him.
u/FlyChigga
I’ve never been overweight a day in my life and in my experience love basically just does not exist
u/chrishnrh57
Legitimately one of my motivators for staying in shape isn't to pick up women, it's because life is legitimately easier when you're in shape. People just treat you better. It is what it is.
u/mvea
I’ve linked to the press release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi
u/Stnmn
It's mostly womens' spaces that echo the position.
Positive traits associated with your demographic are comforting, negative ones are not. Whether true or not, it isn't unusual to embrace p
u/StringSlinging
I’ve recently lost 20kg (pounds be damned, I’m Australian) and it’s night and day the way people treat me, especially from the other sex.
That said, I am carrying myself with more confidenc
u/tollbearer
Especially if you're actually ugly, not just plain or fat. You have to make your ugliness part of your personality, and constantly make reference to it, in a witty, not tragic way, though. If
u/shyishguyish
In other stunning news, the Pope is Catholic.
u/ArtisticRiskNew1212
Outrage? I’m not too outraged, just calling out the losers that say looks don’t matter
u/DevuSM
No, you don't have to do any of that.
You don't address it at all, and you put everything into having an attractive personality.
What is the point of addressing something everyone can see
u/azzers214
Just from the theory standpoint there's two things that could be in play with men. One, is that women tend to rate women more attractive than men for starters, so if you're an unattractive m
u/alluptheass
Any unattractive man knows this already. We're just not allowed to talk about it because the cultural perspective is that women are scrutinized for their looks while we men have it easy.
u/JustSimplyTheWorst
Oh no.... what were the results?!
u/Glittering-Bat-1128
I’m curious about how big of an advantage it is in life to have that positive feedback loop that comes with being attractive, I feel like it’s rarely talked about.
u/Mysteriouspaul
I wasn't exactly ugly but he is kind of right. Unless you have a social group that is always around you and gives you some kind of status most women will be very put off by you trying to talk
u/Glittering-Bat-1128
I’m curious about how big of an advantage it is in life to have that positive feedback loop that comes with being attractive, I feel like it’s rarely talked about.
u/Eureka0123
As I've told people before: Looks is the one thing that will always get your foot in the door over everything else.
u/CriticDanger
Probably the constant gaslighting on all kinds of social media saying that they don't and that women aren't superficial?
u/Senior-Friend-6414
Yeh but people are willing to deal with a bad personality if you look good, but a good personality won’t help someone look past your bad looks
u/CahuelaRHouse
Forget race, sex and sexuality. One of the if not the biggest privilege is being born really good looking. Cute babies are already treated better than ugly ones and the difference only gets b
u/IAMATruckerAMA
I was an obese neckbeard type for more than a decade and when I acted interested, outgoing, and confident others were into me and when I acted disinterested, withdrawn, and timid they weren't
u/ItzLuzzyBaby
Yeah, attractive privilege is absolutely a thing and affects our lives in ways scientists don't even fully comprehend yet, but people roll their eyes like atheists answering Jehovah's Witness
u/iridescent-shimmer
Tbh, I think a lot could be going on in these results. Are service jobs considered to be typically female roles where men are judged harsher? Are female beauty standards already so high that
u/Cel_Drow
Lost 100 lbs and gained some muscle, and it’s an incredibly dramatic & noticeable difference in how people treat you.
Honestly makes trusting new people more difficult if you get stuck i
u/Psych0PompOs
Irrelevant, no one is questioning why, it's just being stated as a fact and you agree that it's a fact. These "well it's because..." type statements don't mean anything.
u/977888
Yeah, and even if you do, most people will still pick great looks and a terrible personality over terrible looks and a great personality. It’s just human nature
u/Gold_Distribution898
Tough break having this posted in the sub most likely to have the highest number of uglies.
u/TheBestMePlausible
If it makes you feel any better, you can grow up being good looking, kind of depend on it, then suddenly your looks go away and you’re left without all the coping strategies everybody normal
u/FormerOSRS
Ok, but can I ask why you feel this way?
u/UnableChard2613
As I tell my boys all the time "don't judge a person based on how they look, but you'll absolutely be judged for how you look."
u/Stnmn
It's mostly womens' spaces that echo the position.
Positive traits associated with your demographic are comforting, negative ones are not. Whether true or not, it isn't unusual to embrace p
u/azzers214
Just from the theory standpoint there's two things that could be in play with men. One, is that women tend to rate women more attractive than men for starters, so if you're an unattractive m
u/Psych0PompOs
"typically" means...?
u/AndrewH73333
It’s more than that too. People probably think they got better service from an attractive person even if it was the exact same service.
u/Charming-Echo-4443
I’m overweight and consider myself very unattractive but i’ve never had any issues dating and i’m currently married so it almost seems completely random
u/FlyChigga
Race is a big part of it too though. In western society an Asian guy is gonna have to look like a model to be seen as attractive as a mildly above average white guy
u/friendlywhitewitch
Have you ever gotten the sense they dislike you for your advice or resent you for it? I know some unattractive people seethe when someone who is good looking says “oh its easy to find love”.
u/shewy92
That was hilarious.
u/PaymentTurbulent193
So you're telling me that I should get back to working out and trying to get in shape? I keep working out then stopping when I go through a mental health crisis. It's not great. Right now I'v
u/977888
Yeah, and even if you do, most people will still pick great looks and a terrible personality over terrible looks and a great personality. It’s just human nature
u/ImitationMetalHead
Maybe I should stop giving that advice out honestly. I'm reasonably in shape, and it definitely has been my experience that love finds you. It's advice I've consistently given my friends, but
u/Abject_Musician_3707
Fish found in the ocean
u/977888
Yep. It’s hard to win people over with your personality when they don’t even want to talk to you
u/HowDoIEvenEnglish
I wouldn’t say they are trusted by default. But people are more willing to think they need help them compared to an adult man. If this was a study about getting hired for management in tech,
u/Psych0PompOs
It's better to do those things just for you regardless of anyone else, but yeah you'll probably get treated better too. People tend to project positive qualities if they like your appearance
u/JustSimplyTheWorst
Ah, this is must be why nobody likes me. Glad we could finally narrow it down.
u/izzittho
I don’t even think it’s the nurturing thing, it’s just that if you’re both ugly and male, you’re legitimately seen as a threat in many cases due to the strength thing.
People don’t find wome
u/FlyChigga
I’ve never been overweight a day in my life and in my experience love basically just does not exist
u/Inb4myanus
Youre prolly a lot less depressed like the rest of us and prolly feel wanted.
u/FormerOSRS
They'd probably do well on tinder, but they'd definitely be treated as viscerally formidable.
The ifbb 212 lb weight class is basically dominated by guys just over 1.5m and I highly doubt t
u/toolateforfate
Do those links of yours show that men are evaluated on looks more than women?
u/FlayR
This was well known already though.
More attractive men earn more for their entire careers;
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6261420/
Furthermore - more attractive men have high
u/ASpaceOstrich
And the exact same personality can be interpreted very differently based on how you look and sound.
u/No_Warning_2428
it kinda is though
u/Eureka0123
As I've told people before: Looks is the one thing that will always get your foot in the door over everything else.
u/DigNitty
I think most people would first assume looks are more important for women than men. If this is a topic one hasn’t thought through before, it’s easy to go that direction.
u/Asisreo1
Yes. You will be surprised how many people will tolerate otherwise terrible service from an attractive worker.
u/airbear13
“Looks DO indeed matter, a whole lot actually, just in case you ugly mfs forgot for one second that you’re ugly and will constantly suffer hardship because of it; thank you and you’re welcome
u/darkpaladin
Coming out of COVID I had lost 30 pounds and put on a bit of muscle, it was remarkable how much nicer everyone treated me.
u/fegodev
A friend once told me: “Don’t worry about finding someone to date, love will come to you, it will find you”—He’s crazy attractive; he doesn’t even have to flirt with anyone, women and gays ar
u/iHateReddit_srsly
They're not wrong. Talking to someone is a good way to gauge whether or not they're interested in you. If you're one of these guys, yeah, you can just assume the other person would be. Otherw
u/KrytenKoro
> by very attractive women, if he's single, and one of them even said: "To bad, but i would probably still hook up if you are down."
I know it's a lost cause, but I'd suggest that people
u/14X8000m
Look at Mr. Stud Muffin over here.
u/Fatcat-hatbat
I’ve always hated the just be confident advice. If people believe you are not deserving (they don’t think you should have it) then they will label confident actions as arrogance or delusion o
u/Just_Another_Scott
Had a professor say this to a bunch of students. She asked the class "what's the first thing you notice about someone?" Everyone just sat there kind of perplexed before she said "looks". It w
u/Somerandomdudereborn
Having a positive feedback loop will result in having confidence and a healthy self esteem that will further makes you not only more attractive but you will also have more positive view on li
u/Psych0PompOs
Yeah definitely. It's useful, people project a lot of good things onto me and I can just play along in person and my life is easier for it. When they get to know me then it's all "you're weir
u/Orkjon
This is why even when I’m going to an interview for a job that doesn’t care if I wear dirty clothes(construction), I wear a nice button down shirt.
u/shitty_owl_lamp
Omg I just looked up Jeremy Meeks and I can’t believe he actually got signed by a modeling agency! I remember when his mugshot went viral…
u/newyylad
It’s just one factor as to why people don’t like you, nice to know though
u/UnableChard2613
As I tell my boys all the time "don't judge a person based on how they look, but you'll absolutely be judged for how you look."
u/Elfie_Elf
Specifically, looks matter to those that are attracted to THOSE looks.
No matter what you look like, there will be people into YOUR look., but, yet, conventionally attractive people will lik
u/AlarmingConfusion918
I can’t tell if you’re kidding or not but this is unironically the case. “Just wash your ass, clean your room, don’t be a creep, have some hobbies, etc. and women will flock to you!” Is the d
u/Designer-Pen-7332
Do you not know the infamous dating advice for men on reddit " focus on personality, looks don't matter"
u/Nouseriously
Used to joke that if I could get an interview, I'd get the job. I have never been particularly charming, but when I was young & very handsome people ACTED like I was the wittiest man on E
u/FireOfOrder
You sure talk about this a lot.
u/Psych0PompOs
Yeah, men aren't allowed to acknowledge being judged based on appearances, only women get to.
u/alluptheass
Any unattractive man knows this already. We're just not allowed to talk about it because the cultural perspective is that women are scrutinized for their looks while we men have it easy.
u/Appropriate-Mango385
I appreciate a good pair when I see it, attraction has nothing to do with it. It's probably like a guy seeing another guy with some nice pectoral muscles and thinking, "hm, good for him."
u/PsychologicalLuck343
This kind of remark can really shut down discussion about the relative importance of looks.
u/PaymentTurbulent193
So you're telling me that I should get back to working out and trying to get in shape? I keep working out then stopping when I go through a mental health crisis. It's not great. Right now I'v
u/Psych0PompOs
It's better to do those things just for you regardless of anyone else, but yeah you'll probably get treated better too. People tend to project positive qualities if they like your appearance
u/quad_damage_orbb
Except that being muscular requires hard work and perseverance...
u/CahuelaRHouse
I bet fear/dominance still plays a significant role. If you were 1.50m but with the exact same looks, they would respect you less. Sad but that’s the way it is.
u/Somerandomdudereborn
Having a positive feedback loop will result in having confidence and a healthy self esteem that will further makes you not only more attractive but you will also have more positive view on li
u/AnonymousBanana7
It's funny that men have been saying this for years and getting gaslit over it.
I gained a ton of weight a couple of years ago and recently got back into shape pretty quick. The sudden chang
u/Mesalted
I witnessed this once at a party. Dude was the second coming of hotness. Girls and guys were constantly beaming at him in conversation and he got asked 2 times, by very attractive women, if
u/Psych0PompOs
Women get trust by default typically regardless of looks, men don't.
u/FormerOSRS
I even wrote that I talk about this a lot in the comment you're responding to.
u/14X8000m
I'd like to outrage please.
u/ProximaCentauriB15
If you dont look like the accepted norm you literally fet treated like an animal.
u/MonsterTruckCarpool
I lost 50 pounds and the change in demeanor of people towards me afterwards was dramatic.
u/AnonymousBanana7
It's funny that men have been saying this for years and getting gaslit over it.
I gained a ton of weight a couple of years ago and recently got back into shape pretty quick. The sudden chang
u/Psych0PompOs
Makes sense, people often default to seeing women as nurturing and so on so even an unattractive woman can be viewed favorably. An unattractive guy is at risk of being labeled a creep just fo
u/KingOfTheWolves4
I feel like a lot of it has to do with a combination of 1. Social circles 2. Region 3. Personality 4. Looks (to an extent).
u/Psych0PompOs
Yeah, men aren't allowed to acknowledge being judged based on appearances, only women get to.
u/wasdninja
At best it's pointless and at worst actively harmful. If it actually does "just happen" to someone it's because someone else made it happen and they don't need your advice.
If it doesn't ju
u/ManWithoutAPlann
It's not necessarily wrong, but it is a bit vague. It's like if I said the best way to be able to bench press 500 pounds is to lift weight.
Also it doesn't necessarily acknowledge that peop
u/DocSprotte
I tend to gain weight thanks to winter depression and loose it again just in time for summer. Not very much, but visibly. The difference in treatment is extreme.
Makes me lose trust in peo
u/DuckyDollyy
And having huge bazongas is detrimental to quality of life in pretty much every way. Not that I speak from experience, but that back pain is no joke.
u/Gold4Lokos4Breakfast
They always did. I don’t get why people thought otherwise
u/DigNitty
I would say the majority do.
But you can definitely lose that innate trust by having face tattoos or looking strung out.
u/Eggsformycat
And on top of that, most people don't have a winning personality.
u/CahuelaRHouse
Forget race, sex and sexuality. One of the if not the biggest privilege is being born really good looking. Cute babies are already treated better than ugly ones and the difference only gets b
u/borninthesummer
I heard it's especially brutal for gay Asian guys in the west.
u/Fatcat-hatbat
I’ve always hate the just be confident advice. If people believe you are not deserving (they don’t think you should have it) then they will label confident actions as arrogance or delusion or
u/Inb4myanus
Youre prolly a lot less depressed like the rest of us and prolly feel wanted.
u/Upstairs-Fan-2168
The key is to just do something. If you go to the gym to work out, keeping the habit is the key to long term success IMO. Sometimes I don't feel like going. I just tell myself, if all I do
u/LetsGoGators23
Well … we commit significantly less violent crime as women compared to men, so that lack of trust is somewhat earned by men even if it really sucks for the totally harmless men out there.
u/Djaii
It could be more than one thing, no reason to limit yourself.
u/chrishnrh57
Legitimately one of my motivators for staying in shape isn't to pick up women, it's because life is legitimately easier when you're in shape. People just treat you better. It is what it is.
u/Ratnix
The part they don't tell you is that it's not going to happen until you're in your 30s or 40s, after the women have already married/had kids with the guys they find attractive and now they're
u/SilentHuntah
Probably Hemsworth. Reddit years ago made a meme out of that line haha.
u/pterodactyl_speller
Can still be ugly though. Being reasonably in shape is usually enough these days, but if you got like a snaggletooth it's not going to help haha.
u/hexcraft-nikk
Yeah attractiveness unfortunately includes race, sex, and orientation. The study itself shows that scale of attractiveness matters more, because women are seen "attractive" overwhelmingly by
u/Intelligent-Exit-634
Yep, people will laugh hysterically at jokes told by attractive bores. It is funny as hell.
u/magus678
The best single piece of dating advice a young man can get is to largely ignore the advice women will give him.
A guy can waste years (decades!) chasing those rabbits into romantic dead end
u/mvea
I’ve linked to the press release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi
u/Gold4Lokos4Breakfast
They always did. I don’t get why people thought otherwise
u/AlarmingConfusion918
Yeah, losing like 60 pounds as a 16 year old was pretty horrible for my worldview. I was already struggling with a lot of problems and then it got confirmed to me that people are extremely sh
u/FlyChigga
Race is a big part of it too though. In western society an Asian guy is gonna have to look like a model to be seen as attractive as a mildly above average white guy
u/jdbolick
I remember when Mythbusters tested cup size for baristas and found that women tipped large breasts even more than men did.