u/SuperFlyAlltheTime
The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid people are full of confidence."
The problem with the bar is that it isn't a test of intelligenc
u/southernermusings
Pretty sure I am this person. Except I don’t say anything I’m not certain of because I’m paranoid I’ll be wrong
u/ndp1234
Work for a small state agency in a whole different region and can confirm. We’ve had lawyers debate and belittle me on the phone, some lawyers don’t even know what statute to look at and it’s
u/OwslyOwl
Now that I’m a lawyer and see how much other lawyers don’t know, it makes me question other professional fields. I used to just always trust other professionals, but if there are people I don
u/TheAnswer1776
I’m currently dealing with a an OC that has a significant amount of experience but slipped up and told me that this was the very first case he had ever had in federal court after 35 years lit
u/zkidparks
What if I think everyone else is an idiot, but I also think I’m a bigger idiot?
u/IntroductionRich300
So many folks out here are totally clueless, and not because they’re dumb, but because the practice of law is so damn subjective. I’ve met attorneys with 15+ years in who are still doing thin
u/Ap0llo
That’s always been the case though. I haven’t heard of a single firm that provides adequate training. You have to learn the ropes on your own. I wouldn’t hold a newer attorney <5
years to
u/Willothwisp2303
I LIKE training associates, but it's goddamn awful when you live by the billable hour and you get no credit for training.
It's also hard to go over exactly how to draft a motion, make an
u/VictoryNo1302
It’s probably because of the way firms “train.” I’m a new associate and I’m starting to see why there are so many incompetent attorneys. There is no training.
u/SuperFlyAlltheTime
The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid people are full of confidence."
The problem with the bar is that it isn't a test of intelligenc
u/AntGood1704
Piece of advice, and feel free to ignore me, but I have generally learned that if you consistently feel everyone else is an idiot/asshole, then you might be the idiot/asshole.
I don’t know y
u/Kentaro009
Nah, the attorneys behaving this way are always invariably extremely confident in their own competency.
u/Colifama55
All I’m saying is that if he beats you on summary judgment, I want an update here.
u/gphs
The ole Raylan Givens: if you meet an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole. If you’re meeting assholes all day, you’re the asshole.
u/babymooonbeam
Every day I’m afraid I am unknowingly this person :/
u/AntGood1704
Piece of advice, and feel free to ignore me, but I have generally learned that if you consistently feel everyone else is an idiot/asshole, then you might be the idiot/asshole.
I don’t know y
u/Ap0llo
I know Reddit loves its cynicism, but I don’t think it’s “elitist” to expect opposing counsel to have a rudimentary understanding of an area of law they have been working in for 8 fucking yea
u/IntroductionRich300
So many folks out here are totally clueless, and not because they’re dumb, but because the practice of law is so damn subjective. I’ve met attorneys with 15+ years in who are still doing thin
u/mplnow
The LSAT is the intelligence test
u/schmigglies
When I clerked, I was regularly blown away by the horrendous lawyering I witnessed on an almost daily basis. And yes, the old-timers were just as guilty of being loud and wrong as the baby la
u/OwslyOwl
Now that I’m a lawyer and see how much other lawyers don’t know, it makes me question other professional fields. I used to just always trust other professionals, but if there are people I don
u/EvolutionCreek
Yeats:
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
u/VictoryNo1302
It’s probably because of the way firms “train.” I’m a new associate and I’m starting to see why there are so many incompetent attorneys. There is no training.
u/Ap0llo
I’m sure the guy I spoke to never had that same fear, so you’re well ahead of the curve by simply entertaining the notion.
u/-tripleu
I feel personally attacked (because what you are saying is true for me).
u/Silverbritches
I wonder how much is false bravado due to practicing beyond their circle of competency.
I litigate some very technical matters, and I get a lot of dabblers as opposing counsel - I’m convinc
u/Ap0llo
That’s always been the case though. I haven’t heard of a single firm that provides adequate training. You have to learn the ropes on your own. I wouldn’t hold a newer attorney <5
years to
u/Ap0llo
I’m sure the guy I spoke to never had that same fear, so you’re well ahead of the curve by simply entertaining the notion.
u/theNaughtydog
When I first started, I was shocked at how bad most attorneys were and they only get away with it because their opposing counsel was worse.
Im talking about not reading orders issued by the
u/SYOH326
Worrying about being an incompetent attorney is like worrying about being a bad parent. If you care enough to try and avoid it, you're probably one of the good ones, caring is like 80% of wha
u/threejollybargemen
How pathetic is that though? The field of law is in the dark ages when it comes to training new members. The fact law school doesn’t require lengthy internships so new graduates will have som
u/TheAnswer1776
I’m currently dealing with a an OC that has a significant amount of experience but slipped up and told me that this was the very first case he had ever had in federal court after 35 years lit
u/Strange_Chair7224
It just makes me laugh. Ok, sure, file that with the court. Not engaging with you, have a nice day.
u/LearnedToe
I’m former Big Law and USAO. I still feel like I don’t know what I’m talking about more often than I care to admit. A fundamental part of our collective dance is to sound really sure of ourse
u/KarlMalownz
Thinking the lawyer across the table an idiot is one of the most dangerous things one can do in practice. If I'm not confident that they're dead wrong, then I assume they have some kind of po
u/babymooonbeam
Every day I’m afraid I am unknowingly this person :/
u/Odor_of_Philoctetes
Its national decline just generally, across the board.
Idiocracy has a courtroom scene and one of the major supporting characters is a lawyer. Its on Hulu, its worth a second watch, or a fi
u/mr_matt138
Found the OC for you.
u/LearnedToe
I’m former Big Law and USAO. I still feel like I don’t know what I’m talking about more often than I care to admit. A fundamental part of our collective dance is to sound really sure of ourse
u/theNaughtydog
When I first started, I was shocked at how bad most attorneys were and they only get away with it because their opposing counsel was worse.
Im talking about not reading orders issued by the
u/Colifama55
All I’m saying is that if he beats you on summary judgment, I want an update here.
u/dwaynetheaaakjohnson
I had a federal criminal defense attorney not know or at least cite the nexus of a search
u/southernermusings
Pretty sure I am this person. Except I don’t say anything I’m not certain of because I’m paranoid I’ll be wrong
u/_learned_foot_
Anybody cocksure in this practice is making a mistake. To accuse them of such like this (as opposed to the regular, hey theirs this guy who does all this, what the heck do I do, is this norma
u/Informal_Sound_100
I experienced this with immigration law. So many attorneys don’t understand what they’re doing.
u/jsesq
Sorry we all can’t be as elite at you, oh mighty one