Neutral-Bullish Options Play on $TLT (Bond ETF) & Dividend Impact Awareness.

Investment Plan & Considerations:

The recent conversation highlights an interest in using options selling strategies, like selling puts or calls, to generate income, while also being cautious about potential losses. Several tickers ($AAPL, $AMZN, $COIN, $CVNA, $SNOW, $PYPL, $BULL) were mentioned, and various strategic points, such as considering fundamentals (P/E, market cap), technicals (RSI, Bollinger Bands), and handling dividends, were discussed. The existing analysis on $TLT and dividend awareness remains highly relevant.

Here's a plan that incorporates these new elements:

  1. Strategy Foundation: Options Selling for Income ("Theta Gang" Approach)

    • The core idea is to sell options (puts or calls) to collect premium, benefiting from time decay (theta) and/or a specific view on the stock's direction.
    • Selling Cash-Secured Puts (CSPs): This is a good strategy if you have a neutral to bullish outlook on a stock and are willing to buy it at the strike price if the option expires in-the-money. The premium received reduces your effective cost basis.
    • Selling Covered Calls (CCs): If you own shares of a stock and have a neutral to slightly bearish short-term outlook, or simply want to generate income from your holdings, this strategy can work. You cap your upside potential in exchange for the premium.
    • Stock Selection Criteria (from discussion): Look at fundamentals (P/E ratio, market cap >$10B, earnings trends, cash flow), technical analysis (chart trends, RSI, Bollinger Bands), and overall company quality. Be cautious with stocks at 52-week lows; make sure it's a "value" and not a "falling knife."
  2. Analyzing Potential Candidates & Risk Profiles (from thread mentions): Before selling options on any stock, do thorough due diligence. The risk/reward profile can vary significantly:

    • Mega-Caps ($AAPL, $AMZN):
      • Outlook: Generally stable, strong fundamentals.
      • Options: Lower implied volatility (IV) typically means lower premiums for OTM options. Suitable for more conservative premium selling.
      • Considerations: Large market movements are less common but can occur around earnings or major news.
    • Growth/Tech ($SNOW):
      • Outlook: Potentially higher growth, but often with higher valuations and sensitivity to market sentiment and interest rates.
      • Options: Can have moderate to high IV, offering better premiums but with increased price swing risk.
      • Considerations: Thoroughly analyze growth prospects versus valuation.
    • Crypto-Exposed ($COIN):
      • Outlook: Highly volatile, tied to cryptocurrency market performance.
      • Options: Very high IV, leading to attractive premiums but also substantial risk of large, rapid price changes.
      • Considerations: Only suitable for those with high risk tolerance and understanding of the crypto space. Position sizing is critical.
    • Special Situations/Turnaround ($PYPL):
      • Outlook: Has faced challenges; value depends on successful execution of its strategy.
      • Options: IV can be elevated. User mentioned selling ATM calls, indicating an income or neutral strategy.
      • Considerations: Assess the likelihood of a turnaround. Selling puts might be for acquiring at a perceived value, while calls can generate income.
    • High Volatility/Distressed ($CVNA):
      • Outlook: Historically very volatile, subject to significant price swings and potential for short squeezes or sharp declines.
      • Options: Extremely high IV, very high premiums, but also extreme risk.
      • Considerations: Approach with extreme caution and small position sizes, if at all. High probability of significant loss or gain.
    • Leveraged ETFs ($BULL - ProShares Ultra S&P 500):
      • Outlook: Aims to provide 2x the daily return of the S&P 500.
      • Options: High IV due to leverage. User mentioned selling ATM calls.
      • Considerations: Leveraged ETFs are complex and experience "volatility decay," making them generally unsuitable for long-term holding or inexperienced traders. Selling options on them carries amplified risk due to the leveraged nature. Extreme caution required.
  3. Strategy Application - Tailoring to Stock Profile & Investor Goals:

    • For Lower Volatility Stocks ($AAPL, $AMZN):
      • CSPs: Sell OTM puts if bullish and willing to acquire shares at a discount.
      • CCs: Sell OTM calls on existing shares for modest income.
    • For Higher Volatility Stocks ($COIN, $CVNA, $SNOW):
      • CSPs: If considering, sell further OTM puts to increase margin of safety, or use put credit spreads to define risk. Expect higher premiums but accept higher risk of assignment or large underlying moves.
      • CCs: Selling calls can yield high premiums, but the stock can also quickly move far above your strike.
      • Key for High Volatility: Use smaller position sizes. Be prepared for significant price fluctuations.
    • General Approach:
      • Select strike prices and expiration dates (e.g., 30-45 days to expiration often provides a good balance of premium and theta decay).
      • If "frightened to lose more money," prioritize capital preservation. This might mean focusing on higher-quality underlyings, wider OTM strikes for puts, or smaller position sizes.
  4. Key Learnings & Best Practices from the Discussion:

    • Dividend Awareness:
      • As highlighted with $TLT, always check ex-dividend dates before trading options.
      • ITM Call Options: Holders may exercise early to capture a dividend if its value exceeds the option's remaining time value. This is a primary risk for short ITM calls.
      • Put Options: Dividends generally make puts slightly more valuable (as the stock price is expected to drop by the dividend amount). Early assignment of puts due to dividends is rare but be aware.
    • Understanding Early Assignment: Can occur for ITM options, especially calls before an ex-dividend date or deep ITM options near expiration where extrinsic value is minimal.
    • Selling Puts on Stocks at 52-Week Lows: This can be a value strategy ("buy low"), but thorough analysis is critical to avoid "catching a falling knife." Ensure the company's fundamentals are sound and it's not declining for persistent, unresolved reasons.
    • Selling Covered Calls Below Cost Basis: While it generates income, if the stock recovers sharply above your call strike, you'll be forced to sell your shares at that strike, potentially locking in a loss relative to your original purchase price. Only do this if you are comfortable exiting the position at the strike price.
    • Technical Analysis: Indicators like RSI and Bollinger Bands can help identify potential entry/exit points or overbought/oversold conditions, complementing fundamental analysis.
  5. Risk Management:

    • Cash-Secured Puts: Only sell puts on stocks you are genuinely willing to own at the strike price, less the premium received. Ensure you have the cash set aside ("secured") to buy the shares if assigned. The maximum risk (if the stock goes to zero) is the strike price minus the premium, per share.
    • Covered Calls: The primary risk is opportunity cost if the stock price rises significantly above your strike. Your shares will likely be called away, and you'll miss out on further upside.
    • Position Sizing: Don't overallocate to any single trade or underlying, especially with higher-risk strategies or volatile stocks. If concerned about losses, smaller positions are prudent.
    • Diversification: Spread your investments/strategies across different underlyings and sectors where appropriate.
    • Continuous Learning: The market and strategies evolve. Stay informed and adapt. If unsure, consider paper trading or starting with very small positions.

Origin Reddit Post

r/thetagang

Daily r/thetagang Discussion Thread - What are your moves for today?

Posted by u/satireplusplus06/01/2025
Keep it friendly and civil; this is not WSB and automod will censor your posts at will for unsavory and unfriendly remarks. Try to keep shit posting and bragging to a minimum.

Top Comments

u/Hot-Serve7059
Agreed on what was already said here. I also look at RSI and bollinger bands.
u/SobekInDisguise
Darn. OK
u/ideletedmyaccount04
FRIENDS, ROMANS, COUNTRY MEN LEND ME YOUR STOCK SYMBOLS THAT YOU ARE WATCHING CALCULATING PREMIUMS ON. I AM FRIGHTENED TO LOSE MORE MONEY.
u/OptionSellingRegard
a ticker would…help COIN? CVNA? SNOW? AAPL? AMZN?
u/MostEscape6543
Tired AF after just landing in Amsterdam. Waiting for a train, then going to eat some French fries and pass tf out. Still no offers on my house for sale, so I’m about to have two mortgage
u/usuallyalurker11
Depends. I look at their PE, market cap (>10b), and previous 2-3 earnings. As long as they are not outrageous I don't mind holding 1-2 months
u/MostEscape6543
Tired AF after just landing in Amsterdam. Waiting for a train, then going to eat some French fries and pass tf out. Still no offers on my house for sale, so I’m about to have two mortgage
u/Time_Try_7907
Watching the Spanish GP, then some of the French open.
u/banditcleaner2
At an Atlantic City casino about to gamble again and checking futures. UNH up so I should gamble more yeah? 😆
u/Hot-Serve7059
Agreed on what was already said here. I also look at RSI and bollinger bands.
u/MostEscape6543
Not their request I’m just moving to keep Mrs happy. Also moving to slightly lower cost area so once the house is sold I’ll be saving some crazy amount like $2k per month almost.
u/spacemoses
I set up some fairly OTM call spreads on an assortment of stocks and a couple TSLR call spreads last Friday. I figure it'll keep going up against all logic but I doubt there will be news to
u/luisluis966
Do you consider stocks within their 52 weeks lows to sell puts on?
u/hv876
Your company won’t cover your mortgage or house sale? My previous company would buy your house at market price if you moved because of their request.
u/MostEscape6543
Tired AF after just landing in Amsterdam. Waiting for a train, then going to eat some French fries and pass tf out. Still no offers on my house for sale, so I’m about to have two mortgage
u/ideletedmyaccount04
FRIENDS, ROMANS, COUNTRY MEN LEND ME YOUR STOCK SYMBOLS THAT YOU ARE WATCHING CALCULATING PREMIUMS ON. I AM FRIGHTENED TO LOSE MORE MONEY.
u/ideletedmyaccount04
FRIENDS, ROMANS, COUNTRY MEN LEND ME YOUR STOCK SYMBOLS THAT YOU ARE WATCHING CALCULATING PREMIUMS ON. I AM FRIGHTENED TO LOSE MORE MONEY.
u/Xerlic
You're doing something right if you can float 2 mortgages. Good luck with the sale and enjoy Amsterdam!
u/Time_Try_7907
Watching the Spanish GP, then some of the French open.
u/xJetSetLifex
Do you have Thinkorswim?
u/Time_Try_7907
Watching the Spanish GP, then some of the French open.
u/kiddo987
Expecting >-1.5% FED speaking 10am PST
u/SobekInDisguise
How often do calls get assigned before the expiration date? I have a bunch of shares that are far under my cost average and was thinking of selling some CCs while I hold, and so far I just so
u/luisluis966
What did you consider when looking at them? I’m not only looking at their 52W low but also looking at the trends from a technical analysis point of view. I am learning about charts so try
u/SobekInDisguise
How often do calls get assigned before the expiration date? I have a bunch of shares that are far under my cost average and was thinking of selling some CCs while I hold, and so far I just so
u/xJetSetLifex
Do you have Thinkorswim?
u/spacemoses
I set up some fairly OTM call spreads on an assortment of stocks and a couple TSLR call spreads last Friday. I figure it'll keep going up against all logic but I doubt there will be news to
u/SobekInDisguise
How often do calls get assigned before the expiration date? I have a bunch of shares that are far under my cost average and was thinking of selling some CCs while I hold, and so far I just so
u/banditcleaner2
At an Atlantic City casino about to gamble again and checking futures. UNH up so I should gamble more yeah? 😆
u/MostlyH2O
Whoopsies
u/spacemoses
I set up some fairly OTM call spreads on an assortment of stocks and a couple TSLR call spreads last Friday. I figure it'll keep going up against all logic but I doubt there will be news to
u/spacemoses
I set up some fairly OTM call spreads on an assortment of stocks and a couple TSLR call spreads last Friday. I figure it'll keep going up against all logic but I doubt there will be news to
u/yoktok_sisa
this might help [https://www.barchart.com/options](https://www.barchart.com/options)
u/Hot-Serve7059
Agreed on what was already said here. I also look at RSI and bollinger bands.
u/banditcleaner2
And it probably will continue to be like that. There’s too much money chasing too few assets so growth will probably prevail in the long run. The popular names especially
u/usuallyalurker11
Sold a TLT 85.5p 06/02 and completely forgot their regular dividend pay out is on the same day as well...
u/MostEscape6543
Not their request I’m just moving to keep Mrs happy. Also moving to slightly lower cost area so once the house is sold I’ll be saving some crazy amount like $2k per month almost.
u/gymbar19
I avoid selling CCs well below my cost basis unless I am trying to get rid of the stock. Because they often recover way too fast, locking in my losses. It is much better to just sit on the st
u/usuallyalurker11
Sold a TLT 85.5p 06/02 and completely forgot their regular dividend pay out is on the same day as well...
u/gymbar19
Went there a few years ago, place was a dump. How is it now?
u/ideletedmyaccount04
FRIENDS, ROMANS, COUNTRY MEN LEND ME YOUR STOCK SYMBOLS THAT YOU ARE WATCHING CALCULATING PREMIUMS ON. I AM FRIGHTENED TO LOSE MORE MONEY.
u/banditcleaner2
At an Atlantic City casino about to gamble again and checking futures. UNH up so I should gamble more yeah? 😆
u/Grooster007
Grabbed 1k shares of Intel at $19.50 during AH, has been a pretty solid floor around $19 for a while. May hold them for a swing trade rather than selling calls since juice has been low on in
u/possible-penguin
I've only had this happen with ex-div dates for ITM calls.
u/MerryRunaround
It happens more than you might think. Usually it happens because value of an upcoming dividend is greater than extrinsic. But in truth you never know who might have some crazy reason to exer
u/ideletedmyaccount04
I have gotten screwed thinking well it can't go lower. It's a value stock. since 2009 growth has absolutely destroyed Ben Graham value investing thesis.
u/Xerlic
You're doing something right if you can float 2 mortgages. Good luck with the sale and enjoy Amsterdam!
u/ideletedmyaccount04
I feel that stocks over decades rise. So find a good company that will make money over the long term. Good solid p/e. profitable, cash flow, not over bought, not crazy. I feel technical a
u/Grooster007
Grabbed 1k shares of Intel at $19.50 during AH, has been a pretty solid floor around $19 for a while. May hold them for a swing trade rather than selling calls since juice has been low on in
u/xJetSetLifex
Do you have Thinkorswim?
u/possible-penguin
I've only had this happen with ex-div dates for ITM calls.
u/SobekInDisguise
How often do calls get assigned before the expiration date? I have a bunch of shares that are far under my cost average and was thinking of selling some CCs while I hold, and so far I just so
u/luisluis966
Do you consider stocks within their 52 weeks lows to sell puts on?
u/Xerlic
You're doing something right if you can float 2 mortgages. Good luck with the sale and enjoy Amsterdam!
u/Xerlic
You're doing something right if you can float 2 mortgages. Good luck with the sale and enjoy Amsterdam!
u/Time_Try_7907
Watching the Spanish GP, then some of the French open.
u/usuallyalurker11
Sold a TLT 85.5p 06/02 and completely forgot their regular dividend pay out is on the same day as well...
u/spacemoses
I set up some fairly OTM call spreads on an assortment of stocks and a couple TSLR call spreads last Friday. I figure it'll keep going up against all logic but I doubt there will be news to
u/ideletedmyaccount04
I feel that stocks over decades rise. So find a good company that will make money over the long term. Good solid p/e. profitable, cash flow, not over bought, not crazy. I feel technical a
u/ideletedmyaccount04
I have gotten screwed thinking well it can't go lower. It's a value stock. since 2009 growth has absolutely destroyed Ben Graham value investing thesis.
u/MerryRunaround
It happens more than you might think. Usually it happens because value of an upcoming dividend is greater than extrinsic. But in truth you never know who might have some crazy reason to exer
u/gymbar19
I avoid selling CCs well below my cost basis unless I am trying to get rid of the stock. Because they often recover way too fast, locking in my losses. It is much better to just sit on the st
u/kiddo987
Expecting >-1.5% FED speaking 10am PST
u/possible-penguin
I've only had this happen with ex-div dates for ITM calls.
u/ideletedmyaccount04
I have gotten screwed thinking well it can't go lower. It's a value stock. since 2009 growth has absolutely destroyed Ben Graham value investing thesis.
u/banditcleaner2
At an Atlantic City casino about to gamble again and checking futures. UNH up so I should gamble more yeah? 😆
u/possible-penguin
I've only had this happen with ex-div dates for ITM calls.
u/luisluis966
Do you consider stocks within their 52 weeks lows to sell puts on?
u/SobekInDisguise
How often do calls get assigned before the expiration date? I have a bunch of shares that are far under my cost average and was thinking of selling some CCs while I hold, and so far I just so
u/usuallyalurker11
Depends. I look at their PE, market cap (>10b), and previous 2-3 earnings. As long as they are not outrageous I don't mind holding 1-2 months
u/MostEscape6543
Tired AF after just landing in Amsterdam. Waiting for a train, then going to eat some French fries and pass tf out. Still no offers on my house for sale, so I’m about to have two mortgage
u/kiddo987
Expecting >-1.5% FED speaking 10am PST
u/usuallyalurker11
Sold a TLT 85.5p 06/02 and completely forgot their regular dividend pay out is on the same day as well...
u/hv876
Your company won’t cover your mortgage or house sale? My previous company would buy your house at market price if you moved because of their request.
u/luisluis966
Do you consider stocks within their 52 weeks lows to sell puts on?
u/[deleted]
[deleted]
u/ideletedmyaccount04
I feel that stocks over decades rise. So find a good company that will make money over the long term. Good solid p/e. profitable, cash flow, not over bought, not crazy. I feel technical a
u/luisluis966
What did you consider when looking at them? I’m not only looking at their 52W low but also looking at the trends from a technical analysis point of view. I am learning about charts so try
u/xJetSetLifex
As long as there is extrinsic, they won’t get assigned early. For example, I have shares of PYPL and BULL that I sell weekly ATM calls on. On Friday at the close I will buy back (or let expir
u/MostlyH2O
Whoopsies
u/Time_Try_7907
Watching the Spanish GP, then some of the French open.
u/MostlyH2O
Whoopsies
u/ideletedmyaccount04
I have gotten screwed thinking well it can't go lower. It's a value stock. since 2009 growth has absolutely destroyed Ben Graham value investing thesis.
u/MerryRunaround
It happens more than you might think. Usually it happens because value of an upcoming dividend is greater than extrinsic. But in truth you never know who might have some crazy reason to exer
u/usuallyalurker11
Sold a TLT 85.5p 06/02 and completely forgot their regular dividend pay out is on the same day as well...
u/gymbar19
I avoid selling CCs well below my cost basis unless I am trying to get rid of the stock. Because they often recover way too fast, locking in my losses. It is much better to just sit on the st
u/xJetSetLifex
As long as there is extrinsic, they won’t get assigned early. For example, I have shares of PYPL and BULL that I sell weekly ATM calls on. On Friday at the close I will buy back (or let expir
u/Grooster007
Grabbed 1k shares of Intel at $19.50 during AH, has been a pretty solid floor around $19 for a while. May hold them for a swing trade rather than selling calls since juice has been low on in
u/xJetSetLifex
Do you have Thinkorswim?
u/MostlyH2O
Whoopsies
u/luisluis966
What did you consider when looking at them? I’m not only looking at their 52W low but also looking at the trends from a technical analysis point of view. I am learning about charts so try
u/luisluis966
What did you consider when looking at them? I’m not only looking at their 52W low but also looking at the trends from a technical analysis point of view. I am learning about charts so try
u/yoktok_sisa
this might help [https://www.barchart.com/options](https://www.barchart.com/options)
u/usuallyalurker11
Depends. I look at their PE, market cap (>10b), and previous 2-3 earnings. As long as they are not outrageous I don't mind holding 1-2 months
u/xJetSetLifex
As long as there is extrinsic, they won’t get assigned early. For example, I have shares of PYPL and BULL that I sell weekly ATM calls on. On Friday at the close I will buy back (or let expir
u/ideletedmyaccount04
I feel that stocks over decades rise. So find a good company that will make money over the long term. Good solid p/e. profitable, cash flow, not over bought, not crazy. I feel technical a
u/hv876
Your company won’t cover your mortgage or house sale? My previous company would buy your house at market price if you moved because of their request.
u/yoktok_sisa
this might help [https://www.barchart.com/options](https://www.barchart.com/options)
u/usuallyalurker11
Depends. I look at their PE, market cap (>10b), and previous 2-3 earnings. As long as they are not outrageous I don't mind holding 1-2 months
u/ideletedmyaccount04
I feel that stocks over decades rise. So find a good company that will make money over the long term. Good solid p/e. profitable, cash flow, not over bought, not crazy. I feel technical a
u/MostEscape6543
Not their request I’m just moving to keep Mrs happy. Also moving to slightly lower cost area so once the house is sold I’ll be saving some crazy amount like $2k per month almost.
u/xJetSetLifex
As long as there is extrinsic, they won’t get assigned early. For example, I have shares of PYPL and BULL that I sell weekly ATM calls on. On Friday at the close I will buy back (or let expir
u/Hot-Serve7059
Agreed on what was already said here. I also look at RSI and bollinger bands.
u/MerryRunaround
It happens more than you might think. Usually it happens because value of an upcoming dividend is greater than extrinsic. But in truth you never know who might have some crazy reason to exer
u/MostEscape6543
Not their request I’m just moving to keep Mrs happy. Also moving to slightly lower cost area so once the house is sold I’ll be saving some crazy amount like $2k per month almost.
u/possible-penguin
I've only had this happen with ex-div dates for ITM calls.
u/xJetSetLifex
As long as there is extrinsic, they won’t get assigned early. For example, I have shares of PYPL and BULL that I sell weekly ATM calls on. On Friday at the close I will buy back (or let expir
u/Hot-Serve7059
Agreed on what was already said here. I also look at RSI and bollinger bands.
u/Xerlic
You're doing something right if you can float 2 mortgages. Good luck with the sale and enjoy Amsterdam!
u/yoktok_sisa
this might help [https://www.barchart.com/options](https://www.barchart.com/options)
u/hv876
Your company won’t cover your mortgage or house sale? My previous company would buy your house at market price if you moved because of their request.
u/MostEscape6543
Not their request I’m just moving to keep Mrs happy. Also moving to slightly lower cost area so once the house is sold I’ll be saving some crazy amount like $2k per month almost.
u/usuallyalurker11
Depends. I look at their PE, market cap (>10b), and previous 2-3 earnings. As long as they are not outrageous I don't mind holding 1-2 months
u/hv876
Your company won’t cover your mortgage or house sale? My previous company would buy your house at market price if you moved because of their request.
u/xJetSetLifex
Do you have Thinkorswim?
u/ideletedmyaccount04
nope.
u/ideletedmyaccount04
I have gotten screwed thinking well it can't go lower. It's a value stock. since 2009 growth has absolutely destroyed Ben Graham value investing thesis.
u/MostEscape6543
Tired AF after just landing in Amsterdam. Waiting for a train, then going to eat some French fries and pass tf out. Still no offers on my house for sale, so I’m about to have two mortgage
u/luisluis966
Do you consider stocks within their 52 weeks lows to sell puts on?
u/luisluis966
What did you consider when looking at them? I’m not only looking at their 52W low but also looking at the trends from a technical analysis point of view. I am learning about charts so try
u/gymbar19
I avoid selling CCs well below my cost basis unless I am trying to get rid of the stock. Because they often recover way too fast, locking in my losses. It is much better to just sit on the st
u/ideletedmyaccount04
FRIENDS, ROMANS, COUNTRY MEN LEND ME YOUR STOCK SYMBOLS THAT YOU ARE WATCHING CALCULATING PREMIUMS ON. I AM FRIGHTENED TO LOSE MORE MONEY.
u/gymbar19
I avoid selling CCs well below my cost basis unless I am trying to get rid of the stock. Because they often recover way too fast, locking in my losses. It is much better to just sit on the st

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