Opportunity for California labor law experts to advise on PTO payout issues.
Okay, based on the new Reddit discussion (ID: 1lixgkk) and the insights from the previous analysis, here's an updated perspective:
Analysis of Reddit Discussion (ID: 1lixgkk - "Husband's company is moving from PTO to 'unlimited' PTO...")
The core issue remains the same: a California-based company is switching from an accrued PTO system to an "unlimited" PTO policy with just two weeks' notice. The main worry for employees, especially those with maxed-out accrued PTO, is losing this earned benefit, which they suspect is a cost-cutting move in anticipation of layoffs.
The comments overwhelmingly confirm that in California, accrued vacation time is considered earned wages and must be paid out upon termination or a significant policy change like this. Failing to do so would violate California labor law. This reinforces the opportunity identified previously.
Hot Skills, Tools, and Qualifications:
-
Skills:
- Deep Knowledge of California Labor Law: Specifically regarding wage and hour laws, earned wages, and PTO payout requirements (e.g., California Labor Code Section 227.3).
- Legal Consultation & Advisory: Ability to clearly explain legal rights and options to employees.
- HR Policy Interpretation & Compliance (California specific): Understanding how company policies intersect with state law.
- Negotiation & Mediation: For engaging with HR/employers on behalf of employees.
- Wage Claim Filing: Familiarity with the process for filing claims with the California Labor Commissioner's Office (Division of Labor Standards Enforcement - DLSE).
- Employee Advocacy: Representing employee interests effectively.
-
Tools:
- California Labor Code and DLSE publications/website.
- Legal research databases (LexisNexis, Westlaw) for legal professionals.
- Case management software (for legal practices).
-
Qualifications:
- Licensed California Employment Lawyer: Specializing in employee rights, wage and hour disputes.
- HR Consultant with California Specialization: Expertise in state-specific compliance, employee relations, and policy transitions.
- Paralegal with California Employment Law Experience: Supporting attorneys in research, case preparation, and client communication.
Screening for Better Work Opportunities & Potential Job Opportunities:
The situation described presents clear service opportunities for legal and HR professionals specializing in California employment law.
-
Job Opportunity: Employment Lawyer (California-based or licensed in CA)
- Role: Provide legal consultation to affected employees. Advise them on their rights regarding accrued PTO payout. Represent employees in negotiations with the company or, if necessary, in filing wage claims with the DLSE or pursuing legal action if the company fails to pay out accrued PTO.
- Target Clients: Employees of companies in California undergoing similar PTO policy changes.
-
Job Opportunity: HR Consultant (Specializing in California Labor Law & Employee Relations)
- Role: Offer advisory services to groups of employees or individuals. Help them understand the implications of the policy change, their rights under California law, and strategies for communicating with their HR department. Could also advise the company (though less likely in this scenario if they're already making a potentially non-compliant move) on how to legally and ethically manage such a transition, including communication and payout strategies.
- Target Clients: Affected employees, employee groups, or potentially small to mid-sized companies seeking to implement such changes compliantly.
-
Job Opportunity: Paralegal or Legal Assistant (California Employment Law Focus)
- Role: Support employment lawyers by conducting initial client intake, legal research on PTO and wage laws, drafting communications, and assisting with the preparation of wage claims.
- Target Employers: Employment law firms in California, solo practitioners specializing in employee rights.
Resume/Portfolio Directions:
-
For Employment Lawyers:
- Highlight experience with California wage and hour litigation, particularly cases involving unpaid wages, vacation pay, and wrongful termination.
- Showcase successful settlements or judgments related to Labor Code Section 227.3.
- Mention experience advising clients on navigating complex employment policy changes.
-
For HR Consultants:
- Emphasize expertise in California employment law compliance, specifically regarding PTO, final wages, and policy development.
- Provide examples of guiding companies or advising employees through HR policy transitions successfully and legally.
- Highlight skills in mediation, employee relations, and clear communication of complex HR/legal topics.
-
For Paralegals:
- Detail experience in supporting employment law cases, knowledge of California court procedures and DLSE claim processes.
- Mention skills in legal research, document drafting, and client communication within an employment law context.
Expected Benefits/Returns:
-
For Affected Employees (Clients):
- Full payout of their accrued PTO, which could amount to several weeks or even months of salary.
- Protection of their earned wages.
- Peace of mind and clarity on their rights.
-
For Legal/HR Professionals (Service Providers):
- Lawyers: Potential for contingency fees (a percentage of recovered unpaid wages) if representing clients in claims, or hourly rates for consultation. Given that accrued PTO can be substantial, this can be lucrative, especially if multiple employees from the same company are affected.
- HR Consultants: Hourly or project-based fees for advisory services, workshops, or mediation.
- Increased Reputation: Successfully assisting employees in such situations enhances professional reputation and can lead to referrals.
This scenario underscores a recurring need for specialized legal and HR expertise in navigating California's robust employee protection laws.
Origin Reddit Post
r/cscareerquestions
Husband's company is moving from PTO to "unlimited" PTO, with 2 weeks' warning. My husband has maxed out his PTO. Is there anything to be done?
Posted by u/nemicolopterus•06/24/2025
I assume there's nothing to be done, but he's essentially losing his accrued PTO that he has maxed out. We suspect they're gearing up for layoffs, and doing this so they don't have to pay PTO
Top Comments
u/arekhemepob
Depends on the state
u/packet_weaver
I average 35 a year lately. It's glorious.
u/adgjl12
You’re not wrong. Though I still take the time I want despite feeling uncomfortable 😂 just would rather feel comfortable about it or start taking even more than what traditional companies off
u/avaxbear
This is how it works at a previous company I worked at. As long as the PTO is scheduled, it can't be taken away, and it must be paid out regardless of what happens if you leave (but very few
u/Ok_Birdo
I think you should be able to get the remaining PTO paid out.
Then set that money aside to plan out a nice two week trip somewhere.
u/avaxbear
Depends on the state
Worst case scenario for most states: you may schedule all of your current, unused PTO before the deadline occurs (you can schedule future days). For example, if you have
u/nemicolopterus
Thanks! Sounds like since we're in California we might be in better shape than expected.
u/nemicolopterus
Excellent news. As long as he gets something. IMO he really needs to take time off 😄 but that's a whole different battle.
Yes, we are in California too.
u/skodinks
Not much you can do. Making noise will make you a target for layoffs, and probably the best you can do is just get an immediate two weeks off. That will likely influence their desire to give
u/Gold_Trade8357
Unlimited PO is such a scam. It becomes basically taboo to take time off
u/Turbulent-Week1136
You will get paid out your accrued vacation days. This is standard operating procedure and if they don't, lawyers need to get involved. Your vacation days are a liability (a debt) owed to you
u/Eric848448
California is one of the few states that explicitly requires payout of unused PTO when you leave a company. I’d suggest talking to the state Department of Labor and see what they have to say
u/AtheistAgnostic
Take 3 weeks off right now.
u/nemicolopterus
True. We'll see if he can choose lump sum vs use the PTO
u/nemicolopterus
Thanks! Great details here.
u/Rascal2pt0
When my company transitioned they paid out 100% of accrued PTO. I'm in CA tho and CA requires accrued payout when you quit or are laid off.
u/RandomNPC
I live in a state where PTO is not protected. A friend's company switched and her accrued PTO - two years of it - vanished into thin air. I always warn my coworkers who love hoarding it to sp
u/Trick-Interaction396
Yep, when my company switched they gave us 6 month to use our remaining PTO. Not sure if it was 100% legal but it was reasonable imo.
u/Ok_Bathroom_4810
On the plus aide, maybe he’ll actually take some PTO now.
u/MasterBathingBear
You’re in California. Don’t use any more PTO and take the payout.
That said, here’s my recommendation for unlimited PTO: USE IT!
Start the year by booking one week off each quarter. If you
u/Eric848448
California is one of the few states that explicitly requires payout of unused PTO when you leave a company. I’d suggest talking to the state Department of Labor and see what they have to say
u/avaxbear
This is how it works at a previous company I worked at. As long as the PTO is scheduled, it can't be taken away, and it must be paid out regardless of what happens if you leave (but very few
u/Groove-Theory
Yep. This is also true in IL as well (for anyone reading)
u/nemicolopterus
Thanks! Sounds like since we're in California we might be in better shape than expected.
u/nemicolopterus
LMAO yeah it can be. My company is excellent with it, but we have a feeling his won't be. Definitely looking for other options now!
u/nemicolopterus
Very useful info! Thank you
u/Ok_Bathroom_4810
On the plus aide, maybe he’ll actually take some PTO now.
u/TruEnvironmentalist
The first company I worked for did this, switched to unlimited PTO with like a 3 week notice. Everyone who has accrued time lost it.
That being said, they didn't have layoffs immediately af
u/No-Amoeba-6542
\+1 mine as well. I'm not sure it is legal to not pay it out.
u/lgm1213
Self regulation, but when ppl realize that, they can just take as much as they need and stop caring about the taboo
u/gms_fan
I can tell you as someone who has experience "unlimited" PTO that what you are concerned about is generally true. It becomes more difficult to take PTO. And there's nothing accumulated to cas
u/walkslikeaduck08
If your husband gets laid off, speak to an attorney to see if this can be used to increase the severance package. Otherwise, kind of SOL unfortunately
u/RandomNPC
I live in a state where PTO is not protected. A friend's company switched and her accrued PTO - two years of it - vanished into thin air. I always warn my coworkers who love hoarding it to sp
u/w0m
This. My condolences OP, Unlimited PTO is horrible. But you should get a nice paycheck next month at least.
u/Fearless_Weather_206
They should pay out your accured time as a lump sum.
u/PassengerAny9009
I just went through this too. They grandfathered us in and let us keep a percentage of accrued vacation for a year. Max 80 hours in our case. I had three weeks accrued so I basically “lost” a
u/travishummel
If it was me, I’d immediately schedule as much PTO as possible. I’d say that the company is creating a “use it or lose it” incentive and I’d use this argument with my boss.
Then once July 1s
u/nemicolopterus
California. We didn't think so, but will double check given all the comments.
u/areraswen
He should immediately request off for the two weeks and tell them exactly why.
They tried to decree that we all had to use up our accrued PTO once, within the next month. My boss and I both
u/nemicolopterus
That seemed sketchy. Thanks for confirming. Hopefully it won't require legal action.
u/D1rtyH1ppy
California has laws about PTO. Your husband gets to keep his hours and will get paid out, at some point.
u/avaxbear
There is 100% a loophole in being able to use all your unpaid PTO or scheduling it immediately, having scheduled days as still eligible for payout. HR will probably not tell you the loophole
u/walkslikeaduck08
If your husband gets laid off, speak to an attorney to see if this can be used to increase the severance package. Otherwise, kind of SOL unfortunately
u/nemicolopterus
Excellent 👍 thank you!
u/nemicolopterus
Definitely a worthy consideration! No major milestones, and his manager would approve. Honestly my husband hasn't taken time off for like 2 years so he really needs it.
u/nemicolopterus
Great advice, thanks. We'll double-check.
u/avaxbear
There is 100% a loophole in being able to use all your unpaid PTO or scheduling it immediately, having scheduled days as still eligible for payout. HR will probably not tell you the loophole
u/Internal_Research_72
> We doubt it’ll truly feel “unlimited” based on his company culture.
I’ve taken 7 days of PTO since I started last July. And I’ve been given shit for all of them.
u/catfood_man_333332
OP is in California. Send this to the top.
u/nemicolopterus
Hahaha I've been telling him he needs to take time off!!
u/doktorhladnjak
It is required to payout in California. However, I think they can stop banked accrual and require him to take any remaining banked PTO before tapping into the unlimited policy.
So if he lea
u/WinonasChainsaw
Get out, unlimited PTO is a scam
u/Angriestanteater
This happened to me. There was no PTO payout. However, it was paid out when we quit or got terminated. In a way, it was better this way as our pay rates increased pretty substantially between
u/nemicolopterus
We're in California. Thank you! This is really helpful.
u/AtheistAgnostic
TL;DR will be you are TELLING (not asking) your manager "I am taking this PTO" and then you treat the rest of the year as a full reset and match norms (which will likely match the normal PTO
u/KnowledgePitiful8197
yes it does, after July 1st he can take unlimited PTO.
u/ImSoCul
I'm at an unlimited PTO company, personally I've averaged like 15 days off per year, so far below what I'd get elsewhere, but overall work culture is pretty reasonable and I feel I've had ple
u/SouredRamen
Look like CA treats accrued vacation as earned wages, so it's mandatory for employers to payout unused vacation time. You'll have a nice paycheck coming your way.
u/goomyman
They pay out pto when they do this
u/Physical_Mirror6969
I went through this with a company in Mass and I’m pretty sure payout was mandatory since PTO was earned.
u/jfjfjfajajaja
you can phone it in for a day everywhere tho
u/oupablo
I'm amazed by pretty much every part of this comment. First, what company allows you to accrue that much PTO. I don't think I've ever worked anywhere that I didn't lose some PTO accrued over
u/Lunabotics
Another thing to consider - PTO = a kind of raise.
If you get 4 weeks PTO, that is your full time pay + 4 weeks of time you are being paid for not working.
4/52 = 7% raise.
Over time you
u/bribeav
I’m in California as well and this is exactly how my company handled it when we switched over a couple years ago.
u/floopsyDoodle
July 1st is in 8 days, not sure if the math works...
u/[deleted]
[deleted]
u/Fearless_Weather_206
The downside is the tax rate so they take a huge amount. Downside of unlimited PTO is any time off can be curtailed based on manager discretion while before with accrued time off they have to
u/BigDaddyBino
Go through the motions without actually doing your work that day.
u/nemicolopterus
True. We'll see if he can choose lump sum vs use the PTO
u/nemicolopterus
Yeah def agree "unlimited" PTO can be a scam. My company is extremely great with it, but I think we're the outlier.
u/catfood_man_333332
OP is in California. Send this to the top.
u/doktorhladnjak
It is required to payout in California. However, I think they can stop banked accrual and require him to take any remaining banked PTO before tapping into the unlimited policy.
So if he lea
u/python-requests
it's 'unlimited' so if they don't pay out, schedule unlimited time off until they fix it. threaten legal action over the missed payout to avoid immediate firing. during the lag period where t
u/Fearless_Weather_206
They should pay out your accured time as a lump sum.
u/resolvetochange
Personally, I wouldn't think you'd even have to use it right away. Just put in your 3 weeks of PTO request/dates in now.
It's his earned PTO. If they switch to unlimited, the problem is that
u/squeeemeister
Depends a lot of the state you are in. Some states can be pretty strict about paying out pto regardless of what is happening internally.
I’m assuming your husband has asked what will happen
u/Some_Nibblonian
New job time. I have unlimited and my boss all but encourages us to use it.
u/skodinks
Not much you can do. Making noise will make you a target for layoffs, and probably the best you can do is just get an immediate two weeks off. That will likely influence their desire to give
u/Eric848448
They’re not paying out the existing accrued time? What state are you in?
u/pizza_the_mutt
This isn't one of the two scenarios you mention but I wouldn't be surprised if it is also covered somehow.
u/havok4118
My bet is they're writing your husband a check for the pto payout, find that out before freaking out
u/b1ack1323
That’s earned time and benefits he needs to be paid out for. If they refuse, call your state’s DOL.
u/No-Amoeba-6542
\+1 mine as well. I'm not sure it is legal to not pay it out.
u/Fearless_Weather_206
The downside is the tax rate so they take a huge amount. Downside of unlimited PTO is any time off can be curtailed based on manager discretion while before with accrued time off they have to
u/travishummel
If it was me, I’d immediately schedule as much PTO as possible. I’d say that the company is creating a “use it or lose it” incentive and I’d use this argument with my boss.
Then once July 1s
u/Old-Statistician321
Take as much vacation as you possibly can now. They can't say no: accrued vacation is part of your compensation.
u/genericusername71
woo california
u/havok4118
My bet is they're writing your husband a check for the pto payout, find that out before freaking out
u/lucidspoon
That happened to me several years ago. It was great, because I had time off scheduled, so I got paid out for the days and still got to take them off.
u/CyberViking949
In California you own that time. The company will have to pay all the accrued time as wages by law. Unfortunately it gets taxed though. Happened to me and I essentially got a 2months wages ch
u/tw_0407
My company did this and they paid out all accrued PTO when it switched over. I assumed it was the law but I'm not sure. This was in Seattle. Didn't precede layoffs in our case, I think the
u/genericusername71
woo california
u/Eccentric755
Use it all.
u/Gronnie
If you aren’t using enough that’s on you. I took like 6 weeks last year of full weeks and tons of one day and two days off.
u/squeeemeister
Depends a lot of the state you are in. Some states can be pretty strict about paying out pto regardless of what is happening internally.
I’m assuming your husband has asked what will happen
u/Eric848448
They’re not paying out the existing accrued time? What state are you in?
u/travelinzac
That's just a regular day
u/jfjfjfajajaja
you can phone it in for a day everywhere tho
u/goomyman
They pay out pto when they do this
u/nemicolopterus
Great advice, thanks. We'll double-check.
u/AtheistAgnostic
Take 3 weeks off right now.
u/avaxbear
Depends on the state
Worst case scenario for most states: you may schedule all of your current, unused PTO before the deadline occurs (you can schedule future days). For example, if you have
u/DynamicHunter
This isn’t quitting or a layoff scenario though. They are changing their policy to “unlimited”, likely to avoid paying this out in the (near) future. They would probably argue switching your
u/nemicolopterus
Yeah def agree "unlimited" PTO can be a scam. My company is extremely great with it, but I think we're the outlier.
u/tw_0407
My company did this and they paid out all accrued PTO when it switched over. I assumed it was the law but I'm not sure. This was in Seattle. Didn't precede layoffs in our case, I think the
u/fattoush_republic
Only 15 days? I am at an unlimited PTO company and I'm hitting 31 this year...
u/WinonasChainsaw
Get out, unlimited PTO is a scam
u/brewbake
I’m in Cali too and the company I worked at did NOT pay it out. CA requires a payout of accrued PTO when you leave the company. This is different, this is a policy change.
The way this compa
u/IagoInTheLight
If it were easy to get out of paying employees banked PTO, then it would be done all the time. I suspect that it's not easy and a) the company is misinformed, b) it's not their intent, or c
u/nemicolopterus
Fantastic. We'll confirm, and escalate as needed.
u/Trick-Interaction396
Yep, when my company switched they gave us 6 month to use our remaining PTO. Not sure if it was 100% legal but it was reasonable imo.
u/KnowledgePitiful8197
yes it does, after July 1st he can take unlimited PTO.
u/nemicolopterus
Yeah, unlimited at a good company is excellent. My company is great about it. We doubt his will be.
u/nemicolopterus
California. We didn't think so, but will double check given all the comments.
u/brianly
Making you feel weird, and that resulting in you taking less (than a reasonable amount) because it’s weird, is the point. If you treat knowledge work as a simple productivity calculation it’s
u/SouredRamen
Does he live in one of the States where it's required to pay out unused/earned PTO?
Because if so, the company changing to unlimited doesn't get around that law. That PTO is still earned. Th
u/Xanchush
They need to pay you out assuming you're in California.
u/Old-Statistician321
Take as much vacation as you possibly can now. They can't say no: accrued vacation is part of your compensation.
u/Eccentric755
Use it all.
u/nemicolopterus
That would be awesome. Thank you.
u/Tdawg90
for my company, when they made that switch they just paid out the stored PTO....and yes... Unlimited is a BS scam...
u/Rascal2pt0
When my company transitioned they paid out 100% of accrued PTO. I'm in CA tho and CA requires accrued payout when you quit or are laid off.
u/doktorhladnjak
Washington doesn’t require payout of PTO. However, if it was mentioned in the handbook or employment agreements, they do have to.
u/nemicolopterus
That would be awesome. Thank you.
u/RawrRawr83
In Cali it's wages earned. They'll keep it on the books until he leaves the company, but when he does he should get paid out at the rate he earned
u/fattoush_republic
Only 15 days? I am at an unlimited PTO company and I'm hitting 31 this year...
u/Low-Goal-9068
I think they have to.
u/SouredRamen
Look like CA treats accrued vacation as earned wages, so it's mandatory for employers to payout unused vacation time. You'll have a nice paycheck coming your way.
u/TheMathelm
Ah I see you met my last surgeon.
u/Turbulent-Week1136
You will get paid out your accrued vacation days. This is standard operating procedure and if they don't, lawyers need to get involved. Your vacation days are a liability (a debt) owed to you
u/Low-Goal-9068
I think they have to.
u/Physical_Mirror6969
I went through this with a company in Mass and I’m pretty sure payout was mandatory since PTO was earned.
u/SouredRamen
Does he live in one of the States where it's required to pay out unused/earned PTO?
Because if so, the company changing to unlimited doesn't get around that law. That PTO is still earned. Th
u/AtheistAgnostic
TL;DR will be you are TELLING (not asking) your manager "I am taking this PTO" and then you treat the rest of the year as a full reset and match norms (which will likely match the normal PTO
u/doktorhladnjak
Washington doesn’t require payout of PTO. However, if it was mentioned in the handbook or employment agreements, they do have to.
u/nemicolopterus
That seemed sketchy. Thanks for confirming. Hopefully it won't require legal action.
u/Drugba
I’m already at 20-25 days, lol. I’ll be around 40 by end of year.
So many people talk shit on unlimited PTO, but the majority of the places I’ve worked over the past 10 years have been unlim
u/CyberViking949
In California you own that time. The company will have to pay all the accrued time as wages by law. Unfortunately it gets taxed though. Happened to me and I essentially got a 2months wages ch
u/floopsyDoodle
July 1st is in 8 days, not sure if the math works...
u/codefyre
The point is that if you quit or are fired, they still have to pay you out for any PTO in that accrued bucket. Your coworkers with the unlimited bucket walk out the door with nothing.
In Cal
u/TK_tre
Is this in America??
u/Lysenko
I'd start by checking with the manager. If they state that they do NOT intend to pay out the accrued amount, it might be appropriate to file a wage claim with the [California Department of I
u/nemicolopterus
Yeah, unlimited at a good company is excellent. My company is great about it. We doubt his will be.
u/TJonesyNinja
It’s worth it to them to switch even if they have to pay it out just to get it off the ledger. Companies don’t like liabilities like PTO on the books anymore.
u/resolvetochange
Personally, I wouldn't think you'd even have to use it right away. Just put in your 3 weeks of PTO request/dates in now.
It's his earned PTO. If they switch to unlimited, the problem is that
u/temp1211241
Accrued PTO is an earned benefit in California. So that money is there and won’t/can’t just go away. Most systems still track its presence.
What *might* happen is they might still deduct fro
u/noicar
I realized the question is framed in the context of "how can he not lose out on his rightfully accumulated PTO", and I get it sucks to lose PTO that you saved up for a rainy day.
But I would
u/nemicolopterus
Excellent 👍 thank you!
u/m4bwav
"Unlimited" PTO usually means no PTO.
u/SaxAppeal
That’s fucking stupid. So you’re drawing from this accrued bucket of time while everyone else is pulling from a bottomless bucket. But now your bucket is actually just an illusion of an accru
u/Roqjndndj3761
Ah he got the bad kind of unlimited pto. That sucks
The good kind of unlimited pto — under a good manager — is amazing.
u/nemicolopterus
Excellent news. As long as he gets something. IMO he really needs to take time off 😄 but that's a whole different battle.
Yes, we are in California too.
u/ImSoCul
I'm at an unlimited PTO company, personally I've averaged like 15 days off per year, so far below what I'd get elsewhere, but overall work culture is pretty reasonable and I feel I've had ple
u/nemicolopterus
Great points. Thanks for the info
u/adgjl12
Bless you guys. Need more people taking off. I’m leading the team (I think) and including the days off I have planned the next few months I’ll be at 20 days. I want to hit 30 by end of year b
u/nemicolopterus
We're in California. Thank you! This is really helpful.
u/Lysenko
I'd start by checking with the manager. If they state that they do NOT intend to pay out the accrued amount, it might be appropriate to file a wage claim with the [California Department of I
u/w0m
This. My condolences OP, Unlimited PTO is horrible. But you should get a nice paycheck next month at least.
u/Tacos314
# Unlimited PTO is the best if you can make it work, it's less about week or two week long vacations but taking off one or two days a month when needed, and not eating into planned vacation t